Founding fathers liked taxed government health care

[Nascar1966]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

So how come MY insurance company made us change what we already had, and my costs went up by $600 ?? all because of Obamacare also.

Wow there's a suprise. Your insurance had to change and went up because of Obamacare.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Nascar1966

Wow there's a suprise. Your insurance had to change and went up because of Obamacare.

There's 8,000 people working for the company i work for.. I will bet you 95% of them will not vote for Obama based on this ridiculous, costly health bill that makes my somewhat decent insurance turn into crap with an outrageously high deductable.

But Riot knows everything, and surely Obamacare had nothing to do with my insurance company changing all its coverage (and citing Obamacare as the reason).

[Nascar1966]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

There's 8,000 people working for the company i work for.. I will bet you 95% of them will not vote for Obama based on this ridiculous, costly health bill that makes my somewhat decent insurance turn into crap with an outrageously high deductable.

But Riot knows everything, and surely Obamacare had nothing to do with my insurance company changing all its coverage (and citing Obamacare as the reason).

I wasn't misled by Obama's lies in 2008 and wont be misled by this disgrace of a President in 2012. If you dont agree with Riot your deemed to be a hateful person.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Nascar1966

I wasn't misled by Obama's lies in 2008 and wont be misled by this disgrace of a President in 2012. If you dont agree with Riot your deemed to be a hateful person.

GFY

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Nascar1966

I wasn't misled by Obama's lies in 2008 and wont be misled by this disgrace of a President in 2012. If you dont agree with Riot your deemed to be a hateful person.

Nonsense and false. Let's be clear: I called your words about hispanics hateful because you're a bigot, and they were hateful words.

Not because you disagreed with me.

[Danzig]

first of all, any claim of the founding fathers would.......fill in the blank, is disingenuous. the founding fathers didnt agree on much of anything individually, but could certainly school all of us on the art of compromise. thomas jefferson has to rolling in his grave at the current state of the bloated fed.

as for the law affecting things now, before its officially enacted....of course its had an effect. ins cos are being forced to expand coverage, they have to raise rates to stay ahead of the upcoming cost they...well, we, will have to pay.

[trackrat59]

The Founding Fathers. When they wrote all the good crap they wrote way back when they clearly had no idea what the world would look like today. If they could come back I think they would ask for an eraser.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by trackrat59

The Founding Fathers. When they wrote all the good crap they wrote way back when they clearly had no idea what the world would look like today. If they could come back I think they would ask for an eraser.

I think the populace should be allowed all the guns they want, as long as they are muskets.

[Riot]

ins cos are being forced to expand coverage, they have to raise rates to stay ahead of the upcoming cost they..

Or, insurance companies are not forced to expand coverage, as much as the bill will hand them 30 million new people that have to buy insurance from them and will pay them for it.

There is a provision in the PPACA that insurance companies in the future will have to spend 80% of their income on clients (not profits) so they are simply trying to price gouge as much as they can, now, before they are prohibited from doing it any more.

It's pretty funny, because this bill has been accused, by the left, of being better for the insurance companies than people.

[trackrat59]

Here's one big problem Obama has not mentioned. There's a major shortage of primary care physicians in this country. As more people gain access to health care the problem will only be compounded.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

Or, insurance companies are not forced to expand coverage, as much as the bill will hand them 30 million new people that have to buy insurance from them and will pay them for it.

There is a provision in the PPACA that insurance companies in the future will have to spend 80% of their income on clients (not profits) so they are simply trying to price gouge as much as they can, now, before they are prohibited from doing it any more.

It's pretty funny, because this bill has been accused, by the left, of being better for the insurance companies than people.

from fact check dot org:

Most of the new law has yet to go into effect — and it won’t until 2014 — but some provisions affecting insurers were instituted this fall. So far, insurers can’t deny coverage to kids because of preexisting conditions, and they must allow dependents to stay on their parents’ insurance until age 26. They also must provide free preventive care and eliminate lifetime and certain annual monetary caps on coverage.


free. lovely word, isn't it? only someone is paying for it.

all too true that most of the increases yearly are due to rising medical costs overall, but it's also true that there is an estimated 4% increase due to the new law.

besides, lifetime caps being removed as well as removing rules regarding pre-existing conditions will cause rising costs to insurance companies, who will pass that on to their customers. does anyone really think that these companies will accept a lower bottom line, that they'll choose to absorb these costs? yeah, right.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Nascar1966

Wow there's a suprise. Your insurance had to change and went up because of Obamacare.

Insurance costs have been increasing double digits for several years - it's just more of the same gouging by the insurance companies, and blaming it on something else. The provisions in the healthcare act that would help this won't kick in for another 2 years.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Riot

Insurance costs have been increasing double digits for several years - it's just more of the same gouging by the insurance companies, and blaming it on something else. The provisions in the healthcare act that would help this won't kick in for another 2 years.

That is only like 1/8th true.

sure the premiums rise a little every year.

but you are leaving out the fact that they ELIMINATED 66% of the plans we could choose from, leaving us with only a very high deductible plan.. and obamacare gave them the reason and permission to do this.

[Nascar1966]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

That is only like 1/8th true.

sure the premiums rise a little every year.

but you are leaving out the fact that they ELIMINATED 66% of the plans we could choose from, leaving us with only a very high deductible plan.. and obamacare gave them the reason and permission to do this.

Riot actually left something out? That's a surprise. Wonder if Riot read this health care bill page for page? Im still waiting for that answer. Maybe Riot just read the stuff that would be beneficial to Riot. That wouldn't surprise me.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Nascar1966

Riot actually left something out? That's a surprise. Wonder if Riot read this health care bill page for page? Im still waiting for that answer. Maybe Riot just read the stuff that would be beneficial to Riot. That wouldn't surprise me.

Clearly you are the one that needs to read the healthcare bill. Did you bother to read the link I provided that showed what you feared isn't true?

No.

Let's review: you are against healthcare because you think there's a public option in there, or single payer. A government takeover of healthcare that will force us all onto Obamacare, were your words, and you're glad you won't be forced onto Obamacare.

I pointed out there was not a public option. Or single payer. There is no "forcing you onto Obamacare".

Your argument in response is that yes there could be a public option, or single payer, buried deep inside, that nobody has noticed. And I haven't either, because I've not read the whole bill.

A giant conspiracy theory to keep something progressives really wanted, but didn't get, put into the bill but kept top secret from everyone.

Even though the bill has been in the public record in it's entirety for months now, and there is no public option/single payer for you to hate about Obamacare.

Guess what? There are no "death panels", either.

[Nascar1966]

Originally Posted by Riot

Clearly you are the one that needs to read the healthcare bill. Did you bother to read the link I provided that showed what you feared isn't true?

No.

Let's review: you are against healthcare because you think there's a public option in there, or single payer. A government takeover of healthcare that will force us all onto Obamacare, were your words, and you're glad you won't be forced onto Obamacare.

I pointed out there was not a public option. Or single payer. There is no "forcing you onto Obamacare".

Your argument in response is that yes there could be a public option, or single payer, buried deep inside, that nobody has noticed. And I haven't either, because I've not read the whole bill.

A giant conspiracy theory to keep something progressives really wanted, but didn't get, put into the bill but kept top secret from everyone.

Even though the bill has been in the public record in it's entirety for months now, and there is no public option/single payer for you to hate about Obamacare.

Guess what? There are no "death panels", either.

Let me ask you why should my taxpaying money go into something im not going to be using? Im probably not the only one asking this question. Im not afraid to ask it either. How is someone going to pay a fine if they can't afford the insurance? Thats right lets kick them onto the streets so they don't have a roof to live under. Your trying to tell me that the American public wanted this bill approved when it got approved? Didn't the voters give the Dem party a message in November or are your just as clueless as the Dem party? The American public didnt want this bill shoved on them ye tit was because the Dems had the numbers on the Republicans when it was shoved through. Hopefully this year the Republicans take over the Senate. Lets see how our fearless Pres likes it a little of his own medicine.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Nascar1966

Let me ask you why should my taxpaying money go into something im not going to be using?.

Because you live in the United States of America, and our government funds, through our taxes, programs for the common good of all. I don't get Medicaid, but I'm very happy poor children in the town where I live get healthcare.

You are entitled, via your vote, to send to Washington those that help determine those programs. If you are on the side of that you don't want to be, it's part of the freedom of living in this republic, and we've all been on "the other side". We are all funding two wars, and I'm not the least bit happy my money going there. But I have no right to opt out of paying that. Only to vote and make my voice heard.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Nascar1966

Let me ask you why should my taxpaying money go into something im not going to be using? Im probably not the only one asking this question. Im not afraid to ask it either.

I know. I totally feel the same way about VA healthcare, military folks getting free rides to college, and their pensions.*

I'm not using any of those, so maybe they could separate my tax dollars out so they don't pay for them, right?

Your "I've got mine (from your tax dollars), so f*ck you (and be sure not to touch my tax dollars)" schtick would be laughable if it weren't so goddamn pathetic.

*with the disclaimer that I am not actually against any of these things, but Nascar's logic (if you could even call it that), means that he shouldn't get any of the things he so cherishes, because people who won't ever be using them are the ones paying for them.