Privman: Let the Horse of the Year Debate Begin - Page 5

Dahoss · #81 11-09-2010, 07:40 PM

What are the options though DrugS? And don't give me Uncle Mo, because that is ridiculous. If it isn't Blame because in your opinion his campaign was lame, then it can't be Zenyatta either. So who is it? Blind Luck? Proviso? Who else could even be considered?

The Indomitable DrugS · #82 11-09-2010, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahoss

What are the options though DrugS? And don't give me Uncle Mo, because that is ridiculous. If it isn't Blame because in your opinion his campaign was lame, then it can't be Zenyatta either. So who is it? Blind Luck? Proviso? Who else could even be considered?

Like I said, I would waste a vote on Uncle Mo as a protest vote.

I certainly believe he's a better 2-year-old than Favorite Trick in 1997 - and I believe Blame would have got absolutely murdered by the older horses in 1997 (Skip Away, Formal Gold, Gentlemen, Will's Way) ... and yet in '97 the older males beat each other often enough to split HOY votes among them while Favorite Trick dominated the tard vote and took HOY.

So, there is enough precedence with that angle. If Uncle Mo didn't run so sensationally - Goldikova.

Dahoss · #83 11-09-2010, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Like I said, I would waste a vote on Uncle Mo as a protest vote.

I certainly believe he's a better 2-year-old than Favorite Trick in 1997 - and I believe Blame would have got absolutely murdered by the older horses in 1997 (Skip Away, Formal Gold, Gentlemen, Will's Way) ... and yet in '97 the older males beat each other often enough to split HOY votes among them while Favorite Trick dominated the tard vote and took HOY.

So, there is enough precedence with that angle. If Uncle Mo didn't run so sensationally - Goldikova.

And you think giving Uncle Mo HOY is going to deter campaigns like we have seen this year? I don't.

Pletcher already said he only wants to give Uncle Mo two preps next year before the Derby. This is the game now, for better or worse. I don't know how to change it, but not giving the most deserving horse an award he deserves isn't the way.

miraja2 · #84 11-09-2010, 08:10 PM

To me the only serious alternative to Blame should be Blind Luck. I realize she has zero chance to actually win, but if a person wanted to lodge a "protest vote" against the campaigns of Blame and Zenyatta, I think she would make the most sense.

On the board in 8 G1 or G2s.
In the exacta in 7 of those.
Won 5 of those races including two "big ones" in the Kentucky Oaks and the Alabama.

She had a campaign that we want all good horses to have, and she performed extremely well. Voting for her would make sense if a person wants to send a message that HOY (and racing more generally) isn't all about one day/race or about nursing along a perfect record running against mules.

The other question about voting for her concerns the La Brea Stakes. If she runs there and wins in December, adding another G1 to her already stellar season, I think a case could be made that she is worthy of a 1st place vote.

Sightseek · #85 11-09-2010, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2

To me the only serious alternative to Blame should be Blind Luck. I realize she has zero chance to actually win, but if a person wanted to lodge a "protest vote" against the campaigns of Blame and Zenyatta, I think she would make the most sense.

On the board in 8 G1 or G2s.
In the exacta in 7 of those.
Won 5 of those races including two "big ones" in the Kentucky Oaks and the Alabama.

She had a campaign that we want all good horses to have, and she performed extremely well. Voting for her would make sense if a person wants to send a message that HOY (and racing more generally) isn't all about one day/race or about nursing along a perfect record running against mules.

The other question about voting for her concerns the La Brea Stakes. If she runs there and wins in December, adding another G1 to here already stellar season, I think a case could be made that she is worthy of a 1st place vote.

RockHardTen1985 · #86 11-09-2010, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2

To me the only serious alternative to Blame should be Blind Luck. I realize she has zero chance to actually win, but if a person wanted to lodge a "protest vote" against the campaigns of Blame and Zenyatta, I think she would make the most sense.

On the board in 8 G1 or G2s.
In the exacta in 7 of those.
Won 5 of those races including two "big ones" in the Kentucky Oaks and the Alabama.

She had a campaign that we want all good horses to have, and she performed extremely well. Voting for her would make sense if a person wants to send a message that HOY (and racing more generally) isn't all about one day/race or about nursing along a perfect record running against mules.

The other question about voting for her concerns the La Brea Stakes. If she runs there and wins in December, adding another G1 to her already stellar season, I think a case could be made that she is worthy of a 1st place vote.

Blind Luck is a cool horse, her story is also admirable.
Anyone saying HOY for her, is out of there mind. She deserves HOY a lot less then Zenyatta and about as much as Quality Road does.
Whats her excuse for not winning the biggest race of the year for her? Why never elders till then? Why not face males? UB was a horse for course, but Blind Lucks biggest win came over Churchill...Come on man, with Blind Luck being anything more then a cool horse, and 3yr old filly champ.
One last thing... Since Zenyatta was such a fraud beating TOMATOE CANS ALL YEAR, Why did Blind Luck not step up in any of those Grade 1's and defeat her elders? According to most people, Zenyatta beat nothing. Blind Luck could have stayed in her own backyard, faced elders in Grade 1 company and took down the Big Momma.

philcski · #87 11-09-2010, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Obviously - you're 100% right.

However, that doesn't mean the voters for the year end awards need to reward horses who are campaigned in this fashion solely because of how they performed in the Classic.

Go back to Awesome Again's perfect season in 1998 where he beat the toughest field ever assembled in BC Classic history and failed to win Horse of the Year - he was campaigned similarly to Blame.

He had the entrie winter off - came back against complete dogs in an easy race - stepped it up in solid editions of the Foster and Whitney for his next two. He won with the comment "hand ride" in every race that year but the Foster and BC Classic.

Even though it was the best field of horses ever assembled for a BC Classic - a lot of those big horses had very tough seasons and ran like they were over-the-top in that race.

Gentlemen put in a race similar to Life At Ten's performance Saturday. Skip Away struggled mightily. Silver Charm ran three times in the Strub Series, shipped to Dubai and won the World Cup - and made something like 3 or 4 different cross-country ships for races that year after he came back from Dubai. You don't see many horses do what Victory Gallop did anymore as far as running in all three triple crown races, the Haskell, the Travers, and BC Classic as a 3yo. Coronado's Quest made his 10th of 11 starts that season in the BC Classic. Running Stag was a machine, he ran in France, Germany, England, Dubai, Hong Kong, and America.

Blame's own sire Arch was in that race - he only managed to beat a single horse... the DNF Gentlemen.

I realize that HOY voters don't have other optins like they had in 1998 - but Blame is no Awesome Again either. Awesome Again was an extremely handy and tactical horse. When Tale of the Cat stole a 25 flat first quarter on the lead in the Whitney - Day just let him out a little and he shot right past ToftheC like nothing and outsprinted him down the backstretch. When the pace was strong in the Classic - he could take back and finsh strong.

Awesome Again is among my 3-4 favorite horses of all time, and his '98 campaign was amazing- but to use his loss as a reason Blame shouldn't win HOY is folly. You're then discrediting Skip Away, who only won the Donn, GPH, Pimlico Special, Mass Cap, Hollywood Gold Cup, Iselin, and Woodward- before going off form the last two races. Like any horse in 2010 would have a campaign even close to that.

miraja2 · #88 11-09-2010, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

She deserves HOY a lot less then Zenyatta and about as much as Quality Road does.

Blind Luck was in the exacta in seven G1 or G2 races this year. Did the other two you mention do that? No. To me, that means a lot. She ran in a lot of big races, all over the country, and ran well every time. To me that means a lot when you are talking about HOY.
Sure she didn't win the Distaff, but for me it isn't ALL about the BC. Her body of work over the course of the year completely dwarfs the pathetic campaigns of QR and Zenyatta.

If I had a vote, I'd probably vote for Blame even though I really don't like the overemphasis on the Breeders' Cup. But Blind Luck would be my second choice, and if she wins another G1 this year, it would be a little more difficult for me to choose between the two.

RockHardTen1985 · #89 11-09-2010, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2

Blind Luck was in the exacta in seven G1 or G2 races this year. Did the other two you mention do that? No. To me, that means a lot. She ran in a lot of big races, all over the country, and ran well every time. To me that means a lot when you are talking about HOY.
Sure she didn't win the Distaff, but for me it isn't ALL about the BC. Her body of work over the course of the year completely dwarfs the pathetic campaigns of QR and Zenyatta.

If I had a vote, I'd probably vote for Blame even though I really don't like the overemphasis on the Breeders' Cup. But Blind Luck would be my second choice, and if she wins another G1 this year, it would be difficult for me to choose between the two.

Z was what, 5 of 6? The only second being the best dirt field assembled this year? I dont have a problem with Blame, just because I would give it to Z does not mean I have a problem with Blame getting it. I would give it to Blame any day over BL. I know going into the BC, BL had about 300k more in earnings then Z, that gap had to have closed. Like I said BL could have ran in ANY RACE THAT Z RAN IN. They choose to ship east and face Havre De Grace.

Dahoss · #90 11-09-2010, 08:44 PM

Actually Blind Luck couldn't run in ANY RACE Zenyatta ran in. As a 3 year old, she wasn't eligible for the Santa Margarita or Apple Blossom.

miraja2 · #91 11-09-2010, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Like I said BL could have ran in ANY RACE THAT Z RAN IN. They choose to ship east and face Havre De Grace.

It seems odd to hold it against a 3yo filly that her connections targeted races like the Kentucky Oaks and the Alabama.

Like I said, if I had a vote I'd vote for Blame. My point was simply that IF someone was looking for an alternative to Blame, I think it should be Blind Luck. Zenyatta CLEARLY deserves the award even less than she did last year.....when she also clearly didn't deserve it.

RockHardTen1985 · #92 11-09-2010, 08:45 PM

Please no one quote the above poster... Its my first ever offical use of the ignore button. By Official I mean, for more then 30 seconds...
Thanks, Joey S.

RockHardTen1985 · #93 11-09-2010, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2

It seems odd to hold it against a 3yo filly that her connections targeted races like the Kentucky Oaks and the Alabama.

Like I said, if I had a vote I'd vote for Blame. My point was simply that IF someone was looking for an alternative to Blame, I think it would be her. Zenyatta CLEARLY deserves the award even less than she did last year.....when she also clearly didn't deserve it.

I agree that it seems odd, but I guess thats where we are, because Rachel did it.
I guess the only thing we dont agree on is Z and Blind Luck. I would never ever give it to Blind Luck over Z off of this years campaigns. Its like people hold it against Z that Rachel did not make Oaklawn.

Indian Charlie · #94 11-09-2010, 08:47 PM

You are ignoring Miraja2?

miraja2 · #95 11-09-2010, 08:48 PM

Did you just ask for people not to quote me because you had me on ignore.....and then quote me and respond to me?

RockHardTen1985 · #96 11-09-2010, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

You are ignoring Miraja2?

Never.

RockHardTen1985 · #97 11-09-2010, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2

Did you just ask for people not to quote me because you had me on ignore.....and then quote me and respond to me?

LOL, omg...
Not you, Jayson P. Hoss

Indian Charlie · #98 11-09-2010, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Never.

Oh. You said you were ignoring the poster above you.

I was going to say, Miraja2 has a secret that people here would pay good money for, I bet.

Dahoss · #99 11-09-2010, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

You are ignoring Miraja2?

He's ignoring me because he can dish it but not take it. Playing by TFF's playbook. I hope every post I make is now quoted so he has to read it. And by read I mean try and understand the words while thinking of a way to make it about him.

miraja2 · #**100** 11-09-2010, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

LOL, omg...
Not you, Jayson P. Hoss

Oh, okay. I was worried there for a second.

I'm confused though. After all of the feuds you two have had....why was his point about the conditions of the Santa Margarita and Apple Blossom the straw that broke the camel's back?