Baseball Playoffs

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Last game for Bobby Cox. As fine a manager as baseball has seen in the last forty years.

Complete nonsense. Has anyone done less with more in history? He was in the playoffs every year it seems and had an exit every year. 1 championship? Horrendous. Similar to the Mets underachievement during the 80's.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Complete nonsense. Has anyone done less with more in history? He was in the playoffs every year it seems and had an exit every year. 1 championship? Horrendous. Similar to the Mets underachievement during the 80's.

A manager doesn't magically make Hitters hit and pitchers unhittable in the world series.

A good manager helps keep a team together over 162 games + playoffs and puts them in a position to win.

What more could he do? They spent money but it wasn't exactly a new York payroll.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

A manager doesn't magically make Hitters hit and pitchers unhittable in the world series.

A good manager helps keep a team together over 162 games + playoffs and puts them in a position to win.

What more could he do? They spent money but it wasn't exactly a new York payroll.

Somehow, in today's world unless you win it all, it's nothing. That was not a very good baseball team that played the Giants, that they were even there with the injuries and everything else was an achievement. (Or speaks to just how bad the NL is outside one team!)

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Complete nonsense. Has anyone done less with more in history? He was in the playoffs every year it seems and had an exit every year. 1 championship? Horrendous. Similar to the Mets underachievement during the 80's.

You make some seriously uninformed statements (I could say stupid but I am being nice) but this one is close to the top.

"He was in the playoffs every year" is now an underachievement? They won 15 straight division titles. There are 32 teams in baseball. What are the odds that another team wins 15 in a row ever?

How many position players that played for Bobby Cox all those years are headed for the Hall of Fame?

One.

He has had some really good players but the idea that most years the Braves were overloaded with talent outside of Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz is mistaken. He was usually saddled with bullpens bought on the cheap and often made the playoffs with 2 or sometimes 3 players who were below average players in the starting line up.
Robert Fick, Keith Lockhart, Eddie Perez, Rico Brogna, Quilvio Veras, Walt Weiss, Gerald Williams, Michael Tucker, Tony Graffinino, Mark Lemke, etc were all starters at some point during the 15 straight seasons.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You make some seriously uninformed statements (I could say stupid but I am being nice) but this one is close to the top.

"He was in the playoffs every year" is now an underachievement? They won 15 straight division titles. There are 32 teams in baseball. What are the odds that another team wins 15 in a row ever?

How many position players that played for Bobby Cox all those years are headed for the Hall of Fame?

One.

He has had some really good players but the idea that most years the Braves were overloaded with talent outside of Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz is mistaken. He was usually saddled with bullpens bought on the cheap and often made the playoffs with 2 or sometimes 3 players who were below average players in the starting line up.
Robert Fick, Keith Lockhart, Eddie Perez, Rico Brogna, Quilvio Veras, Walt Weiss, Gerald Williams, Michael Tucker, Tony Graffinino, Mark Lemke, etc were all starters at some point during the 15 straight seasons.

Pitching wins championships. He had multiple Hall of Famers on his staff for a decade. You answer your own statement. 15 divisions and 1 WS win. Is Marv Levy a great coach? Solid, but one of the best ever? C'mon now.

[randallscott35]

And the original post said Cox was basically the best manager of the past 40 years?...No way.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

And the original post said Cox was basically the best manager of the past 40 years?...No way.

Of course, I say to myself, this is also the guy who claimed that Kyle Kendrick was a good pitcher...

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Of course, I say to myself, this is also the guy who claimed that Kyle Kendrick was a good pitcher...

Average, not good. But besides that, I wait until someone hits 30 to see what becomes of them.

[randallscott35]

Only 1 dog won of the 4....Hate to say Yanks Phils here but it seems like what everyone would wants to see.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Of course, I say to myself, this is also the guy who claimed that Kyle Kendrick was a good pitcher...

LOL..Dodgers will probably end up with that one. They seem to love those C+/B- types.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

LOL..Dodgers will probably end up with that one. They seem to love those C+/B- types.

you are giving him way too much credit.

He's about a C+/B- guy in Triple A.... in the Majors more like a D+/C- at best.

There is nothing "average" about him, as Randall claims. Solid 7th or 8th starter on a Major League team. That makes the Phillies regular season 97 wins even more impressive. Though three #1 guys kind of equal out a #7 guy.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

LOL..Dodgers will probably end up with that one. They seem to love those C+/B- types.

Kyle Kendrick is one of the worst starters in baseball.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

And the original post said Cox was basically the best manager of the past 40 years?...No way.

They maybe ate too much cake icing.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

They maybe ate too much cake icing.

I will ask once again. Who was better?

[horseofcourse]

The Yankees are now winning games on broken bat hits by Marcus Thames and Kerry Wood pickoff moves. They are phlegm. And Cliff Lee is sitting in the dugout saying..."yep, I'm throwin for them guys next year!".

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I will ask once again. Who was better?

Offensively, who's teams have been consistently worse in the post? LaRussa won a ring (a few years ago) with crap. He's better. Lasorda won a ring in '88 with one REAL good starting pitcher, Gibby, and a rare Scioscia man up. While he was a rather mediocre strategic manager, his teams twice man'd up in the post. Didn't he go to the big show 4 times, and win 2? Wasn't supposed to win either of them. I just think Bobby was a short-term weak motivational individual. Obviously, he was better at that over 162 games.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Pitching wins championships. He had multiple Hall of Famers on his staff for a decade. You answer your own statement. 15 divisions and 1 WS win. Is Marv Levy a great coach? Solid, but one of the best ever? C'mon now.

Who is better?

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Rico Brogna

Man that's a blast from the past.

[dalakhani]

Gardenhire sucks too.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Complete nonsense. Has anyone done less with more in history? He was in the playoffs every year it seems and had an exit every year. 1 championship? Horrendous. Similar to the Mets underachievement during the 80's.

I don't think it's horrendous, but he was a better regular-season manager. In the post, his teams almost always shut it down on offense. I'm sure some of that's on him. How much? Hard to say, but, then, you also have to give him the credit for getting to the post so much. He did get a ring. So, I think the truth is somewhere in between your's n' Cannon's extremes.