Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban

[Honu]

Originally Posted by DerbyCat

You can't put basic human rights up for vote, and treating people equally is a basic human right. I heard someone say that instead of discharging gays from the military we should instead discharge the people who say they can't work with gays in the military. Which discharge policy would create the greater loss?

OMG I know its a fundemental right to be a homo as I am one. This is what Im saying, we the people fund the military of this country, we pay the bill so it should be us who decides who we want dying for our freedoms.
The government has gotten so ahead of us the citizens that(and we have let them)they think they can say what is what when we pay the bills.
If we the people are loud enough about it we can change it.
The biggest problem is that joining the military is a choice and the military officials will akin that to what they think is a choice about being gay.
If a poll was taken among military people I would bet that they wouldnt give a flying frogs azz who serves.

[Nascar1966]

Originally Posted by Honu

OMG I know its a fundemental right to be a homo as I am one. This is what Im saying, we the people fund the military of this country, we pay the bill so it should be us who decides who we want dying for our freedoms.
The government has gotten so ahead of us the citizens that(and we have let them)they think they can say what is what when we pay the bills.
If we the people are loud enough about it we can change it.
The biggest problem is that joining the military is a choice and the military officials will akin that to what they think is a choice about being gay.
If a poll was taken among military people I would bet that they wouldnt give a flying frogs azz who serves.

Im in agreement with you. I did serve twenty years in the military and I had no problems working with someone who liked both sexes.

[DerbyCat]

Originally Posted by Honu

OMG I know its a fundemental right to be a homo as I am one. This is what Im saying, we the people fund the military of this country, we pay the bill so it should be us who decides who we want dying for our freedoms.
The government has gotten so ahead of us the citizens that(and we have let them)they think they can say what is what when we pay the bills.
If we the people are loud enough about it we can change it.
The biggest problem is that joining the military is a choice and the military officials will akin that to what they think is a choice about being gay.
If a poll was taken among military people I would bet that they wouldnt give a flying frogs azz who serves.

Honu, do you want "we the people" to be able to decide if you can be an exercise rider based upon your sexual orientation? How does who you love have anything to do with how you do your job? It doesn't, it should be irrelevant. But there are still enough people who, for religious reasons, don't think gays should be able to do a lot of things... get married, adopt children, work in the military, etc. They shouldn't get to decide what you or anyone else does for a living or how you live your life. I wouldn't trust any aspect of my life to a vote - no majority should be able to say, you can't marry the person you love, you can't give a child a loving home, and you can't work with straight people just because WE don't like what you do with your personal life.
I am legally married to a woman here in California, how many DTers have had their marriage fall apart because of that fact? How many of their children have had nightmares and have to go through therapy because of my marriage? How many people that I know have had this happen to them? Not a single one. But that's the fear. We're still at least a generation removed from where being gay won't matter, until then any vote having to do with "gay rights" is no sure thing.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by DerbyCat

Honu, do you want "we the people" to be able to decide if you can be an exercise rider based upon your sexual orientation? How does who you love have anything to do with how you do your job? It doesn't, it should be irrelevant. But there are still enough people who, for religious reasons, don't think gays should be able to do a lot of things... get married, adopt children, work in the military, etc. They shouldn't get to decide what you or anyone else does for a living or how you live your life. I wouldn't trust any aspect of my life to a vote - no majority should be able to say, you can't marry the person you love, you can't give a child a loving home, and you can't work with straight people just because WE don't like what you do with your personal life.
I am legally married to a woman here in California, how many DTers have had their marriage fall apart because of that fact? How many of their children have had nightmares and have to go through therapy because of my marriage? How many people that I know have had this happen to them? Not a single one. But that's the fear. We're still at least a generation removed from where being gay won't matter, until then any vote having to do with "gay rights" is no sure thing.

Jeez do you really think Im that simple? Maybe you do but my job in the private sector has nothing to do with military policy. The policy is and has been established that gays are not allowed in the services and yet WE still signup for whatever reason. That being said doesnt mean its right but at this point we are allowing the politicians to dictate who serves and who doesnt, not us the people. I am in a domestic partnership, but even before that in my relationship I felt no diffirent than when we were just living together than I do now, but that is just me. I have a right to work in the private sector with no discrimination, but this is not how it is in the military, its called the military for a reason because it is not a democracy. You are to follow orders and so forth and until the American people let their elected officials know that they dont give a crap about who serves it will just be forever a political move.

[clyde]

this is so great!!!!

[Honu]

Originally Posted by clyde

this is so great!!!!

YOUUUUUUU ARE GREAT MY QUEEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[clyde]

Oh my God.

[DerbyCat]

Originally Posted by Honu

Jeez do you really think Im that simple? Maybe you do but my job in the private sector has nothing to do with military policy. The policy is and has been established that gays are not allowed in the services and yet WE still signup for whatever reason. That being said doesnt mean its right but at this point we are allowing the politicians to dictate who serves and who doesnt, not us the people. I am in a domestic partnership, but even before that in my relationship I felt no diffirent than when we were just living together than I do now, but that is just me. I have a right to work in the private sector with no discrimination, but this is not how it is in the military, its called the military for a reason because it is not a democracy. You are to follow orders and so forth and until the American people let their elected officials know that they dont give a crap about who serves it will just be forever a political move.

Of course I don't think you're simple but I do think you're missing my point. I don't think this is an issue that can be trusted to a vote of "we the people" - if it was up to the majority, WE wouldn't be allowed to get married (as is the case here in California and many other states), we wouldn't be allowed to adopt children (Florida), or work in certain jobs (it wasn't that long ago that it was put up for a vote whether or not gays could be teachers). Just because there is a policy, that doesn't mean it should be blindly followed - actually, the military is the perfect place for this rule to be eliminated, the brass tells the troops to leave the gays alone and they have to follow the order - it's that easy!

[Honu]

Originally Posted by DerbyCat

Of course I don't think you're simple but I do think you're missing my point. I don't think this is an issue that can be trusted to a vote of "we the people" - if it was up to the majority, WE wouldn't be allowed to get married (as is the case here in California and many other states), we wouldn't be allowed to adopt children (Florida), or work in certain jobs (it wasn't that long ago that it was put up for a vote whether or not gays could be teachers). Just because there is a policy, that doesn't mean it should be blindly followed - actually, the military is the perfect place for this rule to be eliminated, the brass tells the troops to leave the gays alone and they have to follow the order - it's that easy!

Ok I get your point, but "we the people" seem and I may be wrong, to care less about people serving in the military than they do about "US" comprimising the sanctity of their marriage. They want to hold the name of "marriage" as something unto themselves for whatever absurd reasons.
I feel that if the issue of gays in the military were put to a vote before the whole population of this country that no one would wish to bar them. My "brother in law" who is in the Air Force says that he doesnt know of any one in his unit or anyone that he hangs with who gives a crap about gays being in the military. So maybe Im giving the American people to much credit but I just dont think a large number of Americans care who you sleep with, all the while be willing to die for them.
Politicians use this platform as leverage and will continue to do so as long as we let them.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Honu

Jeez do you really think Im that simple?I have a right to work in the private sector with no discrimination.

Actually, no you don't. That's why it's called the private sector. There is no federal law protecting gays from discrimination in privately owned businesses. That's why the Boy Scouts can kick out gay members and why eHarmony doesn't have to accept gay customers. Private business has every right to discriminate based on sexual orientation. It's the law of the land. Your employer may choose to not discriminate because they understand it's wrong, or you may work in a state that bans discrimination based on sexual preference (about half do), but it is not against federal law for private business to discriminate against you.

Gays are, however, protected from discrimination in federal jobs, other than the biggest government employer there is, the US military.

[clyde]

Honula..there is a hint to what you speak in the Dec. of Ind.




Why the doorknobs failed to stick it in the constitution,I'll never know.

[clyde]

One more thing,Honula baby...GenuineCrazyLady is trying to mock you.



But don't bite her---she has muff teeth.

[joeydb]

There has to be a constructive answer to this. A few points:

1. Gay Americans who want to serve their country have every right to do so, and their service is as vital as anyone else's and should be respected accordingly.

2. Just as when the decision to let women serve in the military was made, this presents challenges not previously encountered when it was a single-sex unit. For example, we separate the sexes into different quarters for sleeping, showering, and any other suitably private activities. We don't let male and female G.I's use the same multiperson showers at the same time.

As previous posters in this thread have pointed out, it would be a ridiculous and sweeping generalization to think that every gay serviceman wants to be romantically involved with straights. And the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" situation, while possibly understandable in the short term when it was introduced, is not a good long term solution.

And, also as pointed out earlier, male, female, gay, straight -- they all serve together, and on the battlefield none of those distinctions matter. What matters is loyalty to the country and fellow members of the armed forces, competence, honor and all the good qualities that the military instills.

So, the question is, what REASONABLE modifications could be made to the existing setup to make everybody reasonably comfortable, once they get used to it. Again, the inclusion of females in the past should be our guide for the future.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Actually, no you don't. That's why it's called the private sector. There is no federal law protecting gays from discrimination in privately owned businesses. That's why the Boy Scouts can kick out gay members and why eHarmony doesn't have to accept gay customers. Private business has every right to discriminate based on sexual orientation. It's the law of the land. Your employer may choose to not discriminate because they understand it's wrong, or you may work in a state that bans discrimination based on sexual preference (about half do), but it is not against federal law for private business to discriminate against you.

Gays are, however, protected from discrimination in federal jobs, other than the biggest government employer there is, the US military.

GCL,


I would like to make up with you..even after all the tasteless, disgusting and completely vile things you have said to me without any legitimate sense of what activities a civilized person should conduct themselves

That said...may I have a photo of your bush?




pleeeeeease?