Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban

[DerbyCat]

Originally Posted by Honu

If "Dont ask dont Tell" wasnt on the books then the people who are in the military could be asked if they are homo's and discharged for answering honestly or court-martialled for lying. As it stands I think it should be made a public vote weather the citizens of this country who pay for the military to protect them want or care if gays are in the military.

You can't put basic human rights up for vote, and treating people equally is a basic human right. I heard someone say that instead of discharging gays from the military we should instead discharge the people who say they can't work with gays in the military. Which discharge policy would create the greater loss?

[letswastemoney]

If women are in the military, there is no good reason why gays shouldn't be.

There is only one thing they need to change though...build separate quarters for gays, just as women have separate sleeping arrangements I assume as well. It doesn't make sense for gay men to sleep with straight men.

But on the battlefield, it shouldn't matter. You are all out there together to survive.

[letswastemoney]

Ugh I get what happened now.

Democrats tacked on the DREAM Act onto the bill that would let gays in the military.

The two subjects don't even relate to each other....but for some reason it was tacked on....

I support Democrats for the most part, but I must admit I don't agree with tacking on an immigration reform bill to this.

[DerbyCat]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

Ugh I get what happened now.

Democrats tacked on the DREAM Act onto the bill that would let gays in the military.

The two subjects don't even relate to each other....but for some reason it was tacked on....

I support Democrats for the most part, but I must admit I don't agree with tacking on an immigration reform bill to this.

DATD was added to this bill for political purposes as well - it's all about getting your base all worked up before a big election. Politicians use these wedge issues to divide us as a country and it's working! If this comes to a vote in the spring it's a non issue but each party wants one more thing they can use to paint the other side as the devil. It's like a bunch of kids pointing fingers and saying, "he did it, I wanted to do the right thing but he wouldn't let me" when they're just as guilty. Everyone has to learn to nut up, do the right thing, live their life, and let others live theirs.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

Ugh I get what happened now.

Democrats tacked on the DREAM Act onto the bill that would let gays in the military.

The DADT repeal and the DREAM act were both tacked on to a standard military funding bill that gave our troops raises.

So that - the raises - didn't happen.

"Thanks troops, for your and your families sacrifices, but we hate gays and immigrants more than we want to give you raises - The GOP"

[letswastemoney]

Originally Posted by Riot

The DADT repeal and the DREAM act were both tacked on to a standard military funding bill that gave our troops raises.

So that - the raises - didn't happen.

"Thanks troops, for your and your families sacrifices, but we hate gays and immigrants more than we want to give you raises - The GOP"

There's no reason for that immigration bill to be on there!!!

I am for gays in the military. I think that's fine.

However, I don't see why that means I have to support illegal immigration!!! They are two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT topics! This whole "well you support this...so that means you MUST support this" logic doesn't make sense to me.

Heck, maybe I even change my mind about thinking there should be separate sleeping quarters. I just want gays to be able to openly admit their sexuality in the military already.

I bet there are plenty of Republicans that would have voted to repeal DADT and to give troops a raise if the non-related DREAM ACT was left off.

[DerbyCat]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

If women are in the military, there is no good reason why gays shouldn't be.

There is only one thing they need to change though...build separate quarters for gays, just as women have separate sleeping arrangements I assume as well. It doesn't make sense for gay men to sleep with straight men.

But on the battlefield, it shouldn't matter. You are all out there together to survive.

I'm not sure separate quarters are necessary, despite what folks may think, gays don't want to have sex with everyone they see. Just like you have a type of woman that you are attracted to, gay folks have their types too... Generally they're attracted to other gay people - it's easier to get laid that way.

The military should separate or discharge anyone that is a sexual predator, not just one classification of sexual orientation. Gays are not another sex or species, a persons orientation is only one component of the whole person that they are. A mature person knows not to sleep with a co-worker... And a military person knows to follow orders - don't look at or covet your bunkmates junk! Really simple concept for the military.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

If women are in the military, there is no good reason why gays shouldn't be.

There is only one thing they need to change though...build separate quarters for gays, just as women have separate sleeping arrangements I assume as well. It doesn't make sense for gay men to sleep with straight men.

But on the battlefield, it shouldn't matter. You are all out there together to survive.

What a nonsensical and ignorant statement about women and gays. Your homophobia is showing. I was one of the first women paramedics in this country, and alas, the rampant bunkhouse sex parties and orgies that people like you** feared never happened in that similar situation, either.

**People that think sex comes before work and professionalism at the workplace.

[letswastemoney]

Originally Posted by Riot

What a nonsensical and ignorant statement about women and gays. Your homophobia is showing. I was one of the first women paramedics in this country, and alas, the rampant bunkhouse sex parties and orgies that people like you** feared never happened in that similar situation, either.

**People that think sex comes before work and professionalism at the workplace.

I have zero homophobia. I never even said there would be rampant orgies and sex parties either.

Hell I have several bi sexual friends and have thought nothing of it.

If I slept in the same room with a gay, I'd probably think nothing of it. But I understand some straight people might.

geez.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

I have zero homophobia. I never even said there would be rampant orgies and sex parties either.

Hell I have several bi sexual friends and have thought nothing of it.

If I slept in the same room with a gay, I'd probably think nothing of it. But I understand some straight people might.

geez.

Yeah, but here's the thing ... gays are sleeping with straights in the military right now. Always have.

The bill regarding immigration that was tacked on allowed illegal immigrants to start a path to citizenship by first serving in the military.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by DerbyCat

You can't put basic human rights up for vote, and treating people equally is a basic human right. I heard someone say that instead of discharging gays from the military we should instead discharge the people who say they can't work with gays in the military. Which discharge policy would create the greater loss?

OMG I know its a fundemental right to be a homo as I am one. This is what Im saying, we the people fund the military of this country, we pay the bill so it should be us who decides who we want dying for our freedoms.
The government has gotten so ahead of us the citizens that(and we have let them)they think they can say what is what when we pay the bills.
If we the people are loud enough about it we can change it.
The biggest problem is that joining the military is a choice and the military officials will akin that to what they think is a choice about being gay.
If a poll was taken among military people I would bet that they wouldnt give a flying frogs azz who serves.

[Nascar1966]

Originally Posted by Honu

OMG I know its a fundemental right to be a homo as I am one. This is what Im saying, we the people fund the military of this country, we pay the bill so it should be us who decides who we want dying for our freedoms.
The government has gotten so ahead of us the citizens that(and we have let them)they think they can say what is what when we pay the bills.
If we the people are loud enough about it we can change it.
The biggest problem is that joining the military is a choice and the military officials will akin that to what they think is a choice about being gay.
If a poll was taken among military people I would bet that they wouldnt give a flying frogs azz who serves.

Im in agreement with you. I did serve twenty years in the military and I had no problems working with someone who liked both sexes.

[DerbyCat]

Originally Posted by Honu

OMG I know its a fundemental right to be a homo as I am one. This is what Im saying, we the people fund the military of this country, we pay the bill so it should be us who decides who we want dying for our freedoms.
The government has gotten so ahead of us the citizens that(and we have let them)they think they can say what is what when we pay the bills.
If we the people are loud enough about it we can change it.
The biggest problem is that joining the military is a choice and the military officials will akin that to what they think is a choice about being gay.
If a poll was taken among military people I would bet that they wouldnt give a flying frogs azz who serves.

Honu, do you want "we the people" to be able to decide if you can be an exercise rider based upon your sexual orientation? How does who you love have anything to do with how you do your job? It doesn't, it should be irrelevant. But there are still enough people who, for religious reasons, don't think gays should be able to do a lot of things... get married, adopt children, work in the military, etc. They shouldn't get to decide what you or anyone else does for a living or how you live your life. I wouldn't trust any aspect of my life to a vote - no majority should be able to say, you can't marry the person you love, you can't give a child a loving home, and you can't work with straight people just because WE don't like what you do with your personal life.
I am legally married to a woman here in California, how many DTers have had their marriage fall apart because of that fact? How many of their children have had nightmares and have to go through therapy because of my marriage? How many people that I know have had this happen to them? Not a single one. But that's the fear. We're still at least a generation removed from where being gay won't matter, until then any vote having to do with "gay rights" is no sure thing.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by DerbyCat

Honu, do you want "we the people" to be able to decide if you can be an exercise rider based upon your sexual orientation? How does who you love have anything to do with how you do your job? It doesn't, it should be irrelevant. But there are still enough people who, for religious reasons, don't think gays should be able to do a lot of things... get married, adopt children, work in the military, etc. They shouldn't get to decide what you or anyone else does for a living or how you live your life. I wouldn't trust any aspect of my life to a vote - no majority should be able to say, you can't marry the person you love, you can't give a child a loving home, and you can't work with straight people just because WE don't like what you do with your personal life.
I am legally married to a woman here in California, how many DTers have had their marriage fall apart because of that fact? How many of their children have had nightmares and have to go through therapy because of my marriage? How many people that I know have had this happen to them? Not a single one. But that's the fear. We're still at least a generation removed from where being gay won't matter, until then any vote having to do with "gay rights" is no sure thing.

Jeez do you really think Im that simple? Maybe you do but my job in the private sector has nothing to do with military policy. The policy is and has been established that gays are not allowed in the services and yet WE still signup for whatever reason. That being said doesnt mean its right but at this point we are allowing the politicians to dictate who serves and who doesnt, not us the people. I am in a domestic partnership, but even before that in my relationship I felt no diffirent than when we were just living together than I do now, but that is just me. I have a right to work in the private sector with no discrimination, but this is not how it is in the military, its called the military for a reason because it is not a democracy. You are to follow orders and so forth and until the American people let their elected officials know that they dont give a crap about who serves it will just be forever a political move.

[clyde]

this is so great!!!!

[Honu]

Originally Posted by clyde

this is so great!!!!

YOUUUUUUU ARE GREAT MY QUEEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[clyde]

Oh my God.

[DerbyCat]

Originally Posted by Honu

Jeez do you really think Im that simple? Maybe you do but my job in the private sector has nothing to do with military policy. The policy is and has been established that gays are not allowed in the services and yet WE still signup for whatever reason. That being said doesnt mean its right but at this point we are allowing the politicians to dictate who serves and who doesnt, not us the people. I am in a domestic partnership, but even before that in my relationship I felt no diffirent than when we were just living together than I do now, but that is just me. I have a right to work in the private sector with no discrimination, but this is not how it is in the military, its called the military for a reason because it is not a democracy. You are to follow orders and so forth and until the American people let their elected officials know that they dont give a crap about who serves it will just be forever a political move.

Of course I don't think you're simple but I do think you're missing my point. I don't think this is an issue that can be trusted to a vote of "we the people" - if it was up to the majority, WE wouldn't be allowed to get married (as is the case here in California and many other states), we wouldn't be allowed to adopt children (Florida), or work in certain jobs (it wasn't that long ago that it was put up for a vote whether or not gays could be teachers). Just because there is a policy, that doesn't mean it should be blindly followed - actually, the military is the perfect place for this rule to be eliminated, the brass tells the troops to leave the gays alone and they have to follow the order - it's that easy!

[Honu]

Originally Posted by DerbyCat

Of course I don't think you're simple but I do think you're missing my point. I don't think this is an issue that can be trusted to a vote of "we the people" - if it was up to the majority, WE wouldn't be allowed to get married (as is the case here in California and many other states), we wouldn't be allowed to adopt children (Florida), or work in certain jobs (it wasn't that long ago that it was put up for a vote whether or not gays could be teachers). Just because there is a policy, that doesn't mean it should be blindly followed - actually, the military is the perfect place for this rule to be eliminated, the brass tells the troops to leave the gays alone and they have to follow the order - it's that easy!

Ok I get your point, but "we the people" seem and I may be wrong, to care less about people serving in the military than they do about "US" comprimising the sanctity of their marriage. They want to hold the name of "marriage" as something unto themselves for whatever absurd reasons.
I feel that if the issue of gays in the military were put to a vote before the whole population of this country that no one would wish to bar them. My "brother in law" who is in the Air Force says that he doesnt know of any one in his unit or anyone that he hangs with who gives a crap about gays being in the military. So maybe Im giving the American people to much credit but I just dont think a large number of Americans care who you sleep with, all the while be willing to die for them.
Politicians use this platform as leverage and will continue to do so as long as we let them.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Honu

Jeez do you really think Im that simple?I have a right to work in the private sector with no discrimination.

Actually, no you don't. That's why it's called the private sector. There is no federal law protecting gays from discrimination in privately owned businesses. That's why the Boy Scouts can kick out gay members and why eHarmony doesn't have to accept gay customers. Private business has every right to discriminate based on sexual orientation. It's the law of the land. Your employer may choose to not discriminate because they understand it's wrong, or you may work in a state that bans discrimination based on sexual preference (about half do), but it is not against federal law for private business to discriminate against you.

Gays are, however, protected from discrimination in federal jobs, other than the biggest government employer there is, the US military.