The Boss has passed.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

I actually agree if your point is that in many ways George hurt the yankees more than he helped. If your contention is that it is simply about outspending everyone else, that simply isn't true.

The yankees have to have a plan just like everyone else. They have a huge advantage with the monopoly money but they still have to put the hotels in the right places.

On another note, I can listen when a Royals fan or even a Rays fan wants to bitch about the Yanks spending money. But when I hear it from a Red Sox or Mets fan...

Actually there is a lot of truth to it.

The yankees plan is unlike anyone elses in team sports. They dont have to develop players to the degree as everyone else and dont have to spend nearly as much time on player development since the rest of the league does it for them. They get the finished product at a premium price but because of the money they have it doesnt matter. It also doesnt matter much when they make a mistake because they can just eat the contract and move on.

While Boston and the mets have more revenues than most everyone else they are still dwarfed by the Yankees. The Red Sox have been competitive because they have not only spent on FA's (though not to the degree of the yankees) but have a superior player development program. Of course having the extra cash to pay draftees over slot and the ability to re-sign its developed players matters too. The Mets havent suceeded because they have done a pretty weak job in developing players.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Actually there is a lot of truth to it.

The yankees plan is unlike anyone elses in team sports. They dont have to develop players to the degree as everyone else and dont have to spend nearly as much time on player development since the rest of the league does it for them. They get the finished product at a premium price but because of the money they have it doesnt matter. It also doesnt matter much when they make a mistake because they can just eat the contract and move on.

While Boston and the mets have more revenues than most everyone else they are still dwarfed by the Yankees. The Red Sox have been competitive because they have not only spent on FA's (though not to the degree of the yankees) but have a superior player development program. Of course having the extra cash to pay draftees over slot and the ability to re-sign its developed players matters too. The Mets havent suceeded because they have done a pretty weak job in developing players.

You can't have it both ways. If you want to say that George screwed them up for 20 years, then you can't say that its all about the money.

This is not nitpicking or semantics. Its a logical fallacy.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

You can't have it both ways. If you want to say that George screwed them up for 20 years, then you can't say that its all about the money.

This is not nitpicking or semantics. Its a logical fallacy.

Surely you understand that George is an outlier to this hypothesis? Are you trying to discount the insanity that swirled round the team during that period? As soon as George was out of the picture the team became a mini- dynasty. As soon as his fingerprints got back on the team they faded and again were resurrected when his health started to fail. He alone was the divisive factor that countered the huge financial advantage and when he is out of the picture the advantage becomes evident.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Surely you understand that George is an outlier to this hypothesis? Are you trying to discount the insanity that swirled round the team during that period? As soon as George was out of the picture the team became a mini- dynasty. As soon as his fingerprints got back on the team they faded and again were resurrected when his health started to fail. He alone was the divisive factor that countered the huge financial advantage and when he is out of the picture the advantage becomes evident.

Regardless, money alone isn't going to do it. It makes it a ton easier, but money alone isn't going to do it.

Ask Peter Angelos. You can spend your team right in the tank.

Surely the yankees get some credit for selecting the right free agents lately. No?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Regardless, money alone isn't going to do it. It makes it a ton easier, but money alone isn't going to do it.

Ask Peter Angelos. You can spend your team right in the tank.

Surely the yankees get some credit for selecting the right free agents lately. No?

If you want to give them credit for throwing money at Sabathia and Texieria and Arod.

but this is a team that drastically overpaid for Burnett and can just absorb it. They are paying Kei Igawa 4 million this year to not play. They ate 1 million to test drive randy winn for a few weeks.

Arod makes 27 million this year
Sabathia makes 23 million this year
Jeter makes 19 million this year
Teixeria makes 20 million this year

those 4 make 17 million more than the rays entire roster

Burnett 16.5
Mariano 15
posada 13 million
Andy P 11.75
Vasquez 11 million
cano 9 million
Swisher 6.75
granderson 5.5
johnson 5.75

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

If you want to give them credit for throwing money at Sabathia and Texieria and Arod.

but this is a team that drastically overpaid for Burnett and can just absorb it. They are paying Kei Igawa 4 million this year to not play. They ate 1 million to test drive randy winn for a few weeks.

Arod makes 27 million this year
Sabathia makes 23 million this year
Jeter makes 19 million this year
Teixeria makes 20 million this year

those 4 make 17 million more than the rays entire roster

Burnett 16.5
Mariano 15
posada 13 million
Andy P 11.75
Vasquez 11 million
cano 9 million
Swisher 6.75
granderson 5.5
johnson 5.75

They got Arod in a trade for homegrown players just like how Boston got Beckett and Lowell. Right?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

They got Arod in a trade for homegrown players just like how Boston got Beckett and Lowell. Right?

No they got Soriano the same way boston got Dice K. We all know the yankees out bid Boston for Arod.

Ramirez was a minor leaguer when they traded him.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Actually there is a lot of truth to it.

The yankees plan is unlike anyone elses in team sports. They dont have to develop players to the degree as everyone else and dont have to spend nearly as much time on player development since the rest of the league does it for them. They get the finished product at a premium price but because of the money they have it doesnt matter. It also doesnt matter much when they make a mistake because they can just eat the contract and move on.

While Boston and the mets have more revenues than most everyone else they are still dwarfed by the Yankees. The Red Sox have been competitive because they have not only spent on FA's (though not to the degree of the yankees) but have a superior player development program. Of course having the extra cash to pay draftees over slot and the ability to re-sign its developed players matters too. The Mets havent suceeded because they have done a pretty weak job in developing players.

Okay. Lets look at the Roster that won that first world series in a century for the Red Sox:

c- VARITEK ACQUIRED IN TRADE
1B- MILLAR FREE AGENT
2B- BELLHORN CONDITIONAL TRADE
SS- REESE FREE AGENT
3B- MUELLER FREE AGENT
OF- MANNY RAMIREZ FREE AGENT
OF- JOHNNY DAMON FREE AGENT
OF- KAPLER FREE AGENT
DH- ORTIZ FREE AGENT

That's right, not a single home grown player in the entire every day lineup. The only one that comes close is Trot Nixon and he sucked and he missed most of the season.

How about the Pitching Staff? Lets take a look:

P- Martinez Trade (basically free agent)
P- Schilling Trade (basically free agent)
P- Arroyo Free Agent
P- Lowe Trade (legit trade)
p- Wakefield Free Agent


And the Yanks buy championships? That team didn't have one homegrown regular. Go ahead Chuck...spin it.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Okay. Lets look at the Roster that won that first world series in a century for the Red Sox:

c- VARITEK ACQUIRED IN TRADE
1B- MILLAR FREE AGENT
2B- BELLHORN CONDITIONAL TRADE
SS- REESE FREE AGENT
3B- MUELLER FREE AGENT
OF- MANNY RAMIREZ FREE AGENT
OF- JOHNNY DAMON FREE AGENT
OF- KAPLER FREE AGENT
DH- ORTIZ FREE AGENT

That's right, not a single home grown player in the entire every day lineup. The only one that comes close is Trot Nixon and he sucked and he missed most of the season.

How about the Pitching Staff? Lets take a look:

P- Martinez Trade (basically free agent)
P- Schilling Trade (basically free agent)
P- Arroyo Free Agent
P- Lowe Trade (legit trade)
p- Wakefield Free Agent


And the Yanks buy championships? That team didn't one homegrown regular. Go ahead Chuck...spin it.

Look at the 07 WS team
C- varitek=acquired in a minor league trade- has never played a single game in the majors for any team other than the Red Sox
1b- Youlkilis- drafted by Boston
2b- Pedroia- drafted by Red Sox
3b- Lowell- acquired in trade for homegrown Hanley Ramirez
Dh- Ortiz-signed off the junk pile after being released by MN-made 1.2 mill that year
ss- Lugo- FA sign 8 mill
of-Coco Crisp-acquired via trade for nobodies made-3 mill that year
of-manny -big money Fa
of-JD drew-market value fa
Sp-Beckett-acquired via trade for Hanley Ramirez
Sp-Wakefield-signed as fa after being released by Pirates -salary when signed 175k
sp-Dice K-Intl FA
sp Shilling-Big Money FA
sp-tavarez-cheap FA -3 mill a year
sp-lester-drafted
Cl- paplebon-drafted

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Look at the 07 WS team
C- varitek=acquired in a minor league trade- has never played a single game in the majors for any team other than the Red Sox
1b- Youlkilis- drafted by Boston
2b- Pedroia- drafted by Red Sox
3b- Lowell- acquired in trade for homegrown Hanley Ramirez
Dh- Ortiz-signed off the junk pile after being released by MN-made 1.2 mill that year
ss- Lugo- FA sign 8 mill
of-Coco Crisp-acquired via trade for nobodies made-3 mill that year
of-manny -big money Fa
of-JD drew-market value fa
Sp-Beckett-acquired via trade for Hanley Ramirez
Sp-Wakefield-signed as fa after being released by Pirates -salary when signed 175k
sp-Dice K-Intl FA
sp Shilling-Big Money FA
sp-tavarez-cheap FA -3 mill a year
sp-lester-drafted
Cl- paplebon-drafted

Would Dice K be considered a "big money free agent"? LOL

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Would Dice K be considered a "big money free agent"? LOL

Sure

And he will be cheap compared to Yu Darvish

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Sure

And he will be cheap compared to Yu Darvish

And in what "market" is J D Drew worth 14 million?

[dalakhani]

How about the 9 million owed to Julio Lugo this year?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

And in what "market" is J D Drew worth 14 million?

that was not out of line at that time