What Horses are not in the Hall of Fame you think should be?

blackthroatedwind · #1 07-02-2010, 01:15 PM

Romero may or may not belong in the Hall of Fame as well....but the Cruget discussion is just too funny.

You really have to be either kidding or a relative.

I mentioned this to someone at the track today whose response to your suggestion that Cruget belongs in the Hall of Fame was " what sport? "

kgar311 · #2 07-02-2010, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Romero may or may not belong in the Hall of Fame as well....but the Cruget discussion is just too funny.

You really have to be either kidding or a relative.

I do think that the HOF committee should make it ALOT more difficult for a jockey to make it in the hall. With that being said im just comparing the numbers of some jockeys already in to his. The guy won G1 races in 3 different decades in 3 different countries. Won a G1 in his 50s. Won the triple crown. I mean what more do you have to do to get in when they are letting jockeys like Romero in?

Cannon Shell · #3 07-02-2010, 01:29 PM

Growing up in Saratoga I can't remember one person ever saying a single nice thing about Jean Cruget as a jockey. If I remember correctly he was not a bad sire but those years are all a bit fuzzy....

blackthroatedwind · #4 07-02-2010, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Growing up in Saratoga I can't remember one person ever saying a single nice thing about Jean Cruget as a jockey. If I remember correctly he was not a bad sire but those years are all a bit fuzzy....

I laughed.

kgar311 · #5 07-02-2010, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Romero may or may not belong in the Hall of Fame as well....but the Cruget discussion is just too funny.

You really have to be either kidding or a relative.

I mentioned this to someone at the track today whose response to your suggestion that Cruget belongs in the Hall of Fame was " what sport? "

Well why dont you show the credentials of Cruguet without his name attached to it and then ask if that jock belongs in the HOF. Im sure 9 out of 10 would say yes

Cannon Shell · #6 07-02-2010, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgar311

Well why dont you show the credentials of Cruguet without his name attached to it and then ask if that jock belongs in the HOF. I'm sure 9 out of 10 would say yes

Dude those credentials are very similar to Jerry Baileys credentials.

Of course I meant 2002 when Bailey won a similar number of stakes.

Just because they let in someone with less than stellar credentials means that someone with virtually no credentials should be in? Was Cruget ever the leading rider at any meet? He was never in the top 3 in NY all the years he rode there. Seriously if he hadn't won the TC on Seattle Slew would you have ever heard of him?

kgar311 · #7 07-02-2010, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Dude those credentials are very similar to Jerry Baileys credentials.

Of course I meant 2002 when Bailey won a similar number of stakes.

Just because they let in someone with less than stellar credentials means that someone with virtually no credentials should be in? Was Cruget ever the leading rider at any meet? He was never in the top 3 in NY all the years he rode there. Seriously if he hadn't won the TC on Seattle Slew would you have ever heard of him?

Heres another nice article about Cruguet that all should read.

http://www.saratoga.com/horse-racing...n-cruguet.html

Cannon Shell · #8 07-02-2010, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgar311

Heres another nice article about Cruguet that all should read.

http://www.saratoga.com/horse-racing...n-cruguet.html

The person who wrote that article made the following quote in the comments section.

"He IS an amazing man, and no doubt the BEST, most gifted jockey who ever rode a horse."

Seriously???

kgar311 · #9 07-02-2010, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The person who wrote that article made the following quote in the comments section.

"He IS an amazing man, and no doubt the BEST, most gifted jockey who ever rode a horse."

Seriously???

Im not saying take it all as gospel, she also says he is a dear friend. But she make some good points of why type of jockey and person he was. What types of money he made lifetime 51million and this is before purses hit the roof. Not every better that lost 2 dollars on the guy can offer an opinion about who he was. Hes an ambassador to the sport and gave his all while he was in it.

Cannon Shell · #10 07-02-2010, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgar311

Im not saying take it all as gospel, she also says he is a dear friend. But she make some good points of why type of jockey and person he was. What types of money he made lifetime 51million and this is before purses hit the roof. Not every better that lost 2 dollars on the guy can offer an opinion about who he was. Hes an ambassador to the sport and gave his all while he was in it.

All of which is nice but Hall of Fames should be for the best of the best and Cruget wasnt really ever considered one of the best riders in NY, in some circles he was thought of as a negative.
(a pretty wide circle i might add)

Answer the question honestly. If he did not win the TC on Seattle Slew would you have ever heard of him?

There are too many jockeys in the HoF as it is. Hell there are about 1000 times more jockeys per capita than horses.

RolloTomasi · #11 07-02-2010, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The person who wrote that article made the following quote in the comments section.

"He IS an amazing man, and no doubt the BEST, most gifted jockey who ever rode a horse."

Seriously???

My favorite part of the article was the picture of Seattle Slew winning the '78 Marlboro Cup....

with ANGEL CORDERO JR up!

kgar311 · #12 07-02-2010, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Dude those credentials are very similar to Jerry Baileys credentials.

Of course I meant 2002 when Bailey won a similar number of stakes.

Just because they let in someone with less than stellar credentials means that someone with virtually no credentials should be in? Was Cruget ever the leading rider at any meet? He was never in the top 3 in NY all the years he rode there. Seriously if he hadn't won the TC on Seattle Slew would you have ever heard of him?

What would you say if Hoist the Flag didnt get hurt and Cruguet had 2 triple crowns under his belt, would he still be a scab?

Cannon Shell · #13 07-02-2010, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgar311

What would you say if Hoist the Flag didnt get hurt and Cruguet had 2 triple crowns under his belt, would he still be a scab?

Dale Murphy was arguably the best player in baseball for a 5 year period between 1982 and 1987. He won 2 MVP's, 4 Silver Slugger Awards, 5 Gold Gloves and made 6 all star teams. He never got more than 23% of the vte for the baseball HoF. No one argues he should be in.

Why does this matter?

Because Dale Murphy was a 100x better baseball player than Cruget was a jockey.

And noone outside of sicko Braves fans or his family believe he is a hall of famer.

RolloTomasi · #14 07-02-2010, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Dale Murphy was arguably the best player in baseball for a 5 year period between 1982 and 1987. He won 2 MVP's, 4 Silver Slugger Awards, 5 Gold Gloves and made 6 all star teams. He never got more than 23% of the vte for the baseball HoF. No one argues he should be in.

Why does this matter?

Because Dale Murphy was a 100x better baseball player than Cruget was a jockey.

And noone outside of sicko Braves fans or his family believe he is a hall of famer.

Was Mike Schmidt Chuck Norris's brother?

Cannon Shell · #15 07-02-2010, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Was Mike Schmidt Chuck Norris's brother?

Chuck Norris never cried

The Indomitable DrugS · #16 07-02-2010, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Was Mike Schmidt Chuck Norris's brother?

I golfed with Mike Schmidt in Florida when I was like 12. He's pretty much a douche. I was like standing a bit behind him and off to the side waiting for him to hit his shot and he turns around and tells me to move.

I was like "ah, Mr. Schmidt, the hole is straight ahead." He got all pissy towards me the rest of the day.

kgar311 · #17 07-02-2010, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Dale Murphy was arguably the best player in baseball for a 5 year period between 1982 and 1987. He won 2 MVP's, 4 Silver Slugger Awards, 5 Gold Gloves and made 6 all star teams. He never got more than 23% of the vte for the baseball HoF. No one argues he should be in.

Why does this matter?

Because Dale Murphy was a 100x better baseball player than Cruget was a jockey.

And noone outside of sicko Braves fans or his family believe he is a hall of famer.

The great but how does that compare? A ball player that was great for 5 years compared to a jockey that won some of the sports greatest races in three different decades on different continents?

Cannon Shell · #18 07-02-2010, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgar311

The great but how does that compare? A ball player that was great for 5 years compared to a jockey that won some of the sports greatest races in three different decades on different continents?

The point is that Cruget was never even considered the best rider anywhere at anytime! At least Murphy was considered the best player for a while. Just hanging around for a long time does not make one great.