When does the $1,000,000 a day start at MTH?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Let me ask you a question, Chuck.....if you should ever train a horse that loses the KY Derby by a nose will you tell people you trained a KY Derby winner?

Yes, I know, you would ( and should ) be ecstatic....but you would also be lying if you said you trained a Derby winner. It's a game of inches.

Apples and oranges. Purse payments are typically a fluid situation based on handle. That is why the are raised or lowered during a meet. This situation is obviously different but it is crazy to think that purse accounts aren't always either under or overpaid. As I said I dont have any idea of what the status of the purse account at Monmouth is. But unless someone has information that they are not sharing I have no reason to believe that they wont be pretty close to paying that amount or transfering some to the boost the fall meet.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Apples and oranges. Purse payments are typically a fluid situation based on handle. That is why the are raised or lowered during a meet. This situation is obviously different but it is crazy to think that purse accounts aren't always either under or overpaid. As I said I dont have any idea of what the status of the purse account at Monmouth is. But unless someone has information that they are not sharing I have no reason to believe that they wont be pretty close to paying that amount or transfering some to the boost the fall meet.

The problem with this argument, and you know this, is that this is a very finite and specific meet/situation, and moving the money to the second meet doesn't matter. In fact, what they are doing is saving money so there can be a second meet, or at least one that isn't skeletal. Having more money for that meet, but failing to give away the average in this one, doesn't change things.

The other thing your argument ignores is that you parse the money out in the manner you suggest, which obviously I understand and agree in theory with what you are saying, when your results will allow you to increase purses later. Well, while the handle numbers have been phenominally good, and surely way better than I expected, they still don't justify these purse levels, even with the subsidy, so how exactly can that translate into raising purses later in this 50 day session....or at least enough to meet the announced average?

Once again, so that it is clear, this Monmouth meeting has been a great success from a fan's perspective, and that is a great thing. Nobody can, or should, argue with that. However, that doesn't preclude having some realistic discussions about other facets of the plan. In fact, this should be especially important in this example given how many people claim this is a blueprint for a direction racing could, should, or must be not only exploring but perhaps heading towards. Looking at all parts, and honestly seeing how well they work, is the only way to reach intelligent and successful conclusions.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The problem with this argument, and you know this, is that this is a very finite and specific meet/situation, and moving the money to the second meet doesn't matter. In fact, what they are doing is saving money so there can be a second meet, or at least one that isn't skeletal. Having more money for that meet, but failing to give away the average in this one, doesn't change things.

The other thing your argument ignores is that you parse the money out in the manner you suggest, which obviously I understand and agree in theory with what you are saying, when your results will allow you to increase purses later. Well, while the handle numbers have been phenomenally good, and surely way better than I expected, they still don't justify these purse levels, even with the subsidy, so how exactly can that translate into raising purses later in this 50 day session....or at least enough to meet the announced average?

Once again, so that it is clear, this Monmouth meeting has been a great success from a fan's perspective, and that is a great thing. Nobody can, or should, argue with that. However, that doesn't preclude having some realistic discussions about other facets of the plan. In fact, this should be especially important in this example given how many people claim this is a blueprint for a direction racing could, should, or must be not only exploring but perhaps heading towards. Looking at all parts, and honestly seeing how well they work, is the only way to reach intelligent and successful conclusions.

Very true yet we are using assumptions for numbers which makes it tough to accurately determine. In this case much of the money is "found" money unlike any other meet and I have no idea what they are required to do with it.

No one is arguing that the current purse structure is sustainable. I dont think that was really part of the discussion that I was involved with. But the idea that they dont/didnt intend to distribute the 50 million just seems like conjecture.

I dont really think that we will be able to discuss the success or relative success of this entire experiment accurately until it is over and we have the numbers to examine. In my mind simply doing what Monmouth is doing without any additional source of purse money isnt really going to change the direction of anything. Hell Calder has already tried this a few years ago with mixed results. What we all want to know is how to quantify the increased field size and quality of racing and the subsequent gain in handle into a number where the purse structure needed can be accurately determined. In otherwords what do the purse levels need to be in order to maximize the other factors or vice versa I suppose.

[blackthroatedwind]

No particular argument with that Chuck.

The beauty of this is that it actually does allow not just discussion, but some tangible results to work with, and what I find mind boggling is the defensive anger seen in this thread from some that can't seem to bear any post concerning Monmouth that isn't a congratulatory message. There is plenty of good about this meeting...but that doesn't preclude some from questioning certain things. We all learn from criticism.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

No particular argument with that Chuck.

The beauty of this is that it actually does allow not just discussion, but some tangible results to work with, and what I find mind boggling is the defensive anger seen in this thread from some that can't seem to bear any post concerning Monmouth that isn't a congratulatory message. There is plenty of good about this meeting...but that doesn't preclude some from questioning certain things. We all learn from criticism.

No doubt. What I have heard from industry sources that isnt being talked about in public is the negative effect that Monmouth is having on the other meets handle. Since CDI refuses to publish handle figures it is hard to determine exactly how much Monmouth has cannibalized their handle at Calder, AP and CD. But I heard that the overall betting at those places isn't down that much but their handle on the CDI tracks is down significantly. The people are seemingly changing their betting habits to the detriment of the other tracks.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

What I have heard from industry sources that isnt being talked about in public is the negative effect that Monmouth is having on the other meets handle.

This is very true...

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

This is very true...

Is it?

I don't follow such things ... I really have my doubts that other tracks handle would suffer. Just because their cards look far less attractive and they don't stack up ... that doesn't mean a whole lot of bettors money will avoid them.

I thought the Met Mile card at Belmont was better in '09 and they got more people to the track attendance wise as well for '09 - both cards also had 11 races -but this years Memorial day card at Belmont handled almost 700K more.

I think a few people in NJ might be coming back to the track. I know a guy from there who lets me use his NJ account ... and for about the last 2 years every time I'd log into his account he'd almost always have about $0.70 for a balance .. the dude simply wasn't betting.. and the few times he'd fund his account it would be for total chump change... a few hundred here and there that would come and go. Now, I see he's got over a couple grand in there and there's at least some activitey. Of course most of his action is going to MTH racing ... but it's pretty safe to assume he's going to be betting a lot more elsewhere than he was when he was betting basically nothing at all anywhere over the last few years.