I need to listen to ATR more often

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Somehow I don't think Shirreffs would've been shaking in his boots at the prospect of facing an 8 for19 monster like WC … lol

Just like he's not afraid of taking on the "highest mountain possible" that is Rail Trip.

NT

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Just like he's not afraid of taking on the "highest mountain possible" that is Rail Trip.

NT

If you owned Zenyatta would you be looking to face Rail Trip in what would figure to be a paceless race (and probably a 4 horse field) at his favorite track? I certainly wouldn't.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

If you owned Zenyatta would you be looking to face Rail Trip in what would figure to be a paceless race (and probably a 4 horse field) at his favorite track? I certainly wouldn't.

Who knows, maybe the owner of Zardana will want to run there.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

If you owned Zenyatta would you be looking to face Rail Trip in what would figure to be a paceless race (and probably a 4 horse field) at his favorite track? I certainly wouldn't.

And when she beats Rail Trip, you will see posts like well Rail Trip isn't Quality Road, let's be honest here no matter who she beats or has beaten thus far, this is the theme of her critics.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by CSC

And when she beats Rail Trip, you will see posts like well Rail Trip isn't Quality Road, let's be honest here no matter who she beats or has beaten thus far, this is the reoccurring of her critics.

It's nice you caught your mistake of saying "reoccurring them" and removed 'them' instead of changing 'them' to 'theme', but while you are at it, you might want to spell 'recurring' correctly.

Looks like you've had a smooth operation on your brain.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by CSC

And when she beats Rail Trip, you will see posts like well Rail Trip isn't Quality Road, let's be honest here no matter who she beats or has beaten thus far, this is the theme of her critics.

not at all true. If she took on males with consistancy and ran well.. won or lose.. her connections and her "legacy" would have a ton more respect.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

not at all true. If she took on males with consistancy and ran well.. won or lose.. her connections and her "legacy" would have a ton more respect.

I disagree. If she goes undefeated and wins the BC Classic this year for the 2nd year in a row, I think her legacy will be greater than if she ran against the boys a few more times and lost.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I disagree. If she goes undefeated and wins the BC Classic this year for the 2nd year in a row, I think her legacy will be greater than if she ran against the boys a few more times and lost.

That's only because her entire legacy is that stupid streak at this point. Just look at the first comment from the Paulick Report swamp things: "17-0. That's all that needs to be said." There's no legitimate argument anymore against testing her on the east coast and/or against boys, so her record is made to be her legacy.

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Yes, I read your post. As I said before, I totally disagree with you. If I owned Zenyatta, I would not be wanting to face Rail Trip at Hollywood in a 4 horse field with no pace.

With regard to your other comment, facing females in California is usually not a serious challenge for her although it has been a couple of times.

She won the Classic last year. She appears to be just as good on the dirt as on synthetic. She looks to be as good this year as last year. Why wouldn't she be one of the horses to beat in the Classic again this year?

Davidowitz claimed she's impervious to pace scenarios and runs just as well behind a slow pace as a fast one (for the record, I agree with him), so what difference should it make how many horses are in the Gold Cup (I guarantee it won't be four) and what the pace is like?

Look at the bolded parts. This is the problem. We're still guessing as to how good she is because they refuse to prove it. It's downright pathetic that we're begging her to face Rail Trip. If she were as great as they say she is, she'd be pointing for the Whitney. And I don't want to hear about all the preps she needs for the BCC. If she can't run against big horses the first Saturday in August, then do so again in November, she's not really a champion.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

That's only because her entire legacy is that stupid streak at this point. Just look at the first comment from the Paulick Report swamp things: "17-0. That's all that needs to be said." There's no legitimate argument anymore against testing her on the east coast and/or against boys, so her record is made to be her legacy.



Davidowitz claimed she's impervious to pace scenarios and runs just as well behind a slow pace as a fast one (for the record, I agree with him), so what difference should it make how many horses are in the Gold Cup (I guarantee it won't be four) and what the pace is like?

Look at the bolded parts. This is the problem. We're still guessing as to how good she is because they refuse to prove it. It's downright pathetic that we're begging her to face Rail Trip. If she were as great as they say she is, she'd be pointing for the Whitney. And I don't want to hear about all the preps she needs for the BCC. If she can't run against big horses the first Saturday in August, then do so again in November, she's not really a champion.

I don't think Davidowitz literally meant that Zenyatta is 100% impervious to pace. I think he meant that she can still win despite a slow pace. She doesn't neccessarily have to have a fast pace to win. She would rather have a fast pace but she doesn't neccessarily have to have one.

So now you're saying that even if she wins the BC Classic again this year that still won't be enough because she's probably not going to face the boys in August. This is getting ridiculous.

To say the streak is not a big deal is ridiculous. It's almost impossible to win 15 graded stakes races in a row, no matter how carefully you pick your spots. You can catch some easy graded stakes races occassionally but you can't do it consistently and that is why it's never been done.

If you could find a way to win 17 races in a row (including 15 graded stakes races in a row) with a horse that's not great, then you should become a racing manager. You would be the best racing manager in the country if you could map out a schedule where a horse that's not that great of a horse wins 15 graded stakes races in a row by picking easy spots. It would actually be easy to make money as an owner if an owner could just find easy graded stakes races and win 15 in a row.

[Smooth Operator]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I disagree. If she goes undefeated and wins the BC Classic this year for the 2nd year in a row, I think her legacy will be greater than if she ran against the boys a few more times and lost.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

not at all true. If she took on males with consistancy and ran well.. won or lose.. her connections and her "legacy" would have a ton more respect.

I don't know how many times I have to say this, the year doesn't end after Delmar or the Spa.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

If you owned Zenyatta would you be looking to face Rail Trip in what would figure to be a paceless race (and probably a 4 horse field) at his favorite track? I certainly wouldn't.

At this point I wouldn't care about getting my a.ss kissed running against fillies and mares and I'd actually look to challenge my mare. Of course, I would have taken her to Dubai without a doubt and told Jess Jackson, Charles Cella, and anyone else, the hell with your $5 million, I'm going to run for 10.

This is the problem that I have with this horse. Her fans are so fervent in their belief that she's so great that they're starting to believe what the connections say. If you think Zenyatta is the "greatest mare of your lifetime" and an all-time great, then how the hell do you leave her in the barn when a 10f (her supposed best distance) against a horse with a marginal resume is going on? It's absolutely ludicrous.

Besides, regarding your pace question, listen to Davidowitz, she's impervious to it. And as for CS, the chief green and pink flag waver, I'd be the first to say that Rail Trip is the best horse Zenyatta's beaten who was actually running on their preferred surface.

NT

[CSC]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Besides, regarding your pace question, listen to Davidowitz, she's impervious to it. And as for CS, the chief green and pink flag waver, I'd be the first to say that Rail Trip is the best horse Zenyatta's beaten who was actually running on their preferred surface.

NT

CSC... to be fair the year isn't over after Delmar or the Spa unlike for some horses, you will reserve judgement to who she faces after these meets correct? Wouldn't this be fairer if you are to be truly critical of her campaign?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

At this point I wouldn't care about getting my a.ss kissed running against fillies and mares and I'd actually look to challenge my mare. Of course, I would have taken her to Dubai without a doubt and told Jess Jackson, Charles Cella, and anyone else, the hell with your $5 million, I'm going to run for 10.

This is the problem that I have with this horse. Her fans are so fervent in their belief that she's so great that they're starting to believe what the connections say. If you think Zenyatta is the "greatest mare of your lifetime" and an all-time great, then how the hell do you leave her in the barn when a 10f (her supposed best distance) against a horse with a marginal resume is going on? It's absolutely ludicrous.

Besides, regarding your pace question, listen to Davidowitz, she's impervious to it. And as for CS, the chief green and pink flag waver, I'd be the first to say that Rail Trip is the best horse Zenyatta's beaten who was actually running on their preferred surface.

NT

They're going to challenge their mare against the best colts in the world in November.

I agree with Davidowitz that she is "relatively" impervious to pace. I don't think Davidowitz believes that she is 100% impervious to pace. I think he knows that it is better for her if the pace is fast. Davidowitz never said she could win a match race with Quality Road. I don't think Davidowitz thinks she would win a match-race with Quality Road. And I don't know if any horse in training could beat Rail Trip right now at Hollywood Park.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

They're going to challenge their mare against the best colts in the world in November.

I agree with Davidowitz that she is "relatively" impervious to pace. I don't think Davidowitz believes that she is 100% impervious to pace. I think he knows that it is better for her if the pace is fast. Davidowitz never said she could win a match race with Quality Road. I don't think Davidowitz thinks she would win a match-race with Quality Road. And I don't know if any horse in training could beat Rail Trip right now at Hollywood Park.

Rail Trip got a dream trip in a Gr.2 carrying 118lbs, I repeat 118lbs in a GRADE 2. Suddenly he is the Quality Road of the west...some of you guys should think about this, I'm not sure if this was the same mindset I heard for Zardana after she beat Rachel or Unrivaled Belle, but talk about annointing a horse? I give you Rail Trip.

[cakes44]

Originally Posted by CSC

Rail Trip got a dream trip in a Gr.2 carrying 118lbs, I repeat 118lbs in a GRADE 2. Suddenly he is the Quality Road of the west...some of you guys should think about this, I'm not sure if this was the same mindset I heard for Zardana after she beat Rachel or Unrivaled Belle, but talk about annointing a horse? I give you Rail Trip.

I agree 100% that Rail Trip is mediocre. That's why Zenyatta's connections running scared sh!tless from the horse is so mind-numbing.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by cakes44

I agree 100% that Rail Trip is mediocre. That's why Zenyatta's connections running scared sh!tless from the horse is so mind-numbing.

I think he's good not mediocre, however let's examine how distorted this has really become. Since everyone is so hung up on the beyers of the 2 races...108 and 103.

What if the weights were reversed... Rail Trip carried 129 and Zenyatta carried 118 in their respective races, what would their beyers be then? They wouldn't be on the same page.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by CSC

Rail Trip got a dream trip in a Gr.2 carrying 118lbs, I repeat 118lbs in a GRADE 2. Suddenly he is the Quality Road of the west...some of you guys should think about this, I'm not sure if this was the same mindset I heard for Zardana after she beat Rachel or Unrivaled Belle, but talk about annointing a horse? I give you Rail Trip.

That last race was hardly the only good race he's ever run. Did you see his performance in the Hollywood Gold Cup last year? He blew them away. I think even the speed-figure guys were impressed with that one. I think he ran a huge number. Didn't he get a 112 Beyer or something like that?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

If you owned Zenyatta would you be looking to face Rail Trip in what would figure to be a paceless race (and probably a 4 horse field) at his favorite track? I certainly wouldn't.

If I owned Zenyatta (and was rich and didnt need the money) I would run her in the Beverly D.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

If I owned Zenyatta (and was rich and didnt need the money) I would run her in the Beverly D.

If they did something like that, and really took a big chance with her, I'd be rooting her home down the stretch as much as some of the biggest Zen-heads one could find. I bet a lot of people would, including those of us who try to bring some rational thought to her worshipers' worlds.
It would be really fun to see something like that....but alas.

Discussing this horse is like a drug. These threads go on and on and they are all the same, but I just can't seem to stay away even though I recognize how pointless they are.