A question for those that do not like Zenyatta...

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Your right, I just looked at KJ pp's maybe I was selling him a bit short. His Belmont turf win as a 3yr old vs elders was STRONG.

I was going to let your comment go and am glad you re-visited it. Kitten's Joy's Va Derby over Artie Schiller, his Secretariat (which was faster than the Million on the same card) and his Joe Hirsch were all very, very good races.

NT

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I was going to let your comment go and am glad you re-visited it. Kitten's Joy's Va Derby over Artie Schiller, his Secretariat (which was faster than the Million on the same card) and his Joe Hirsch were all very, very good races.

NT

OMG Atrie Schiller
Im getting emotional right now, what a MONSTER

[philcski]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I don't think there are many folks who watched Barbaro run on turf who would put Kitten's Joy over him on that surface. Barbaro was probably the best American 2YO on turf, well, ever.

I agree with this... those two performances were pretty much off the charts ridiculous. But Kitten's Joy was probably better at 3, although that is pure conjecture since Barbaro never ran past New Year's Day on the grass.

As for the best dirt 3YO of the decade, I think it's Smarty Jones pretty easily. He was much the best of the best crop. Point Given would rank a lot lower on my list than most- I thought he was always a bit overrated.

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I think it's really tough to say Barbaro was the best of the decade on either surface. I'd certainly take Kitten's Joy before him on the weeds as a 3YO.

Barbaro was terrific but he also beat a future 20k claimer in the Holy Bull and a NY bred who never won a race again in the Fla Derby. His Derby was very strong but that ended up being an awfully weak field.

NT

Of course, the NY Bred got hurt and only ran once more so that's not a really good benchmark. The that ran 2nd that he hammered in the Derby ended up being pretty good.

That Derby did end up being pretty light on quality in the end though.

[Antitrust32]

I absolutely love Smarty Jones. His TC run was my most enjoyable 5 week racing experience since '96 (when I started following).

I do think there were a handful of horses that would have beat him though. Bernardini, Point Given, Curlin...

I would put Smarty with Big Brown *cough*. Big Brown was a crazy talented animal. His Derby from post 20 was great (tho the competition wasnt.. but you can only race against those that you are up against)

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I think it's really tough to say Barbaro was the best of the decade on either surface. I'd certainly take Kitten's Joy before him on the weeds as a 3YO.

Barbaro was terrific but he also beat a future 20k claimer in the Holy Bull and a NY bred who never won a race again in the Fla Derby. His Derby was very strong but that ended up being an awfully weak field.

NT

Barbaro was a pretty green horse up until the Derby. He was naturally a better horse on turf, but even there he was pretty green during spots in his three turf starts.

On dirt, he looked even greener. I thought his first two dirt wins were actually very impressive. A lot more so than anyone else.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Barbaro was the best 3yo of the 2000s, turf or dirt. At least in this country.

based on???

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

based on???

What kind of question is that?

Based on what, me throwing darts?

I once took a dump that spelled out Barbaro?

Voices in my head?


Like any other question of this nature, it's purely opinion based on what I saw in watching the horse.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

What kind of question is that?

Based on what, me throwing darts?

I once took a dump that spelled out Barbaro?

Voices in my head?


Like any other question of this nature, it's purely opinion based on what I saw in watching the horse.

Oh, ok. I thought there may have been some reasoning behind it.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I think it's really tough to say Barbaro was the best of the decade on either surface. I'd certainly take Kitten's Joy before him on the weeds as a 3YO.

Barbaro was terrific but he also beat a future 20k claimer in the Holy Bull and a NY bred who never won a race again in the Fla Derby. His Derby was very strong but that ended up being an awfully weak field.

NT

sharp humor !!!

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Oh, ok. I thought there may have been some reasoning behind it.

Of course there is reasoning behind it. I've stated on here quite a few times what my reasoning is on why I thought he was such a great horse.

The way you asked though suggested you were trying to bait me into a pointless argument.

[Danzig]

i think barbaro could have turned out to be one hell of a horse.

i'm not a curlin fan, so i'd have a hard time putting him above just about any of the others. i thought smarty turned out to be a good one-not so sure that curlin could have beaten him. who knows? they all seem to be on par with each other at this point. curlin, street sense, any given sunday and hard spun all took turns beating each other that year. pretty evenly matched i'd say based on that. looking back on point given...i think he's overrated. hell, i don't know what to think about pg at this point. i don't think he's hall worthy, i know that much.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

What kind of question is that?

Based on what, me throwing darts?

I once took a dump that spelled out Barbaro?

Voices in my head?


Like any other question of this nature, it's purely opinion based on what I saw in watching the horse.

You took a dump that spelled out Barbaro? Uh oh, Dr Oz told Oprah to make sure she had S-shaped poo. That's how she knew she was eating healthy. If you ate your bran you probably picked out Super Saver this year. I sure hope you didn't get Sweetnorthernsaint before. Sounds painful.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

You took a dump that spelled out Barbaro? Uh oh, Dr Oz told Oprah to make sure she had S-shaped poo. That's how she knew she was eating healthy. If you ate your bran you probably picked out Super Saver this year. I sure hope you didn't get Sweetnorthernsaint before. Sounds painful.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

Uh oh, Dr Oz told Oprah to make sure she had S-shaped poo. That's how she knew she was eating healthy. .

Mine is actually Z shaped

... LOL

[DerbyCat]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

Hi DC! Its not that the "Zenyatta detractors" dont like Zenyatta. It is CSC and Booth Operator who we do not like.. and they make it very hard to appreciate Zenyatta to the fullest. Blackthroat said it best in a previous thread.

I can appreciate this comment... I just got home from a trip down south to see Zenyatta race and it was a great experience. Yes, she has some seriously rabid fans and it appears her connections have taken an "easy path" but the way I see it, they could have retired her at the end of last year but didn't - they kept her racing not only for the local fans enjoyment or their own but apparently Zenyatta enjoys still racing as well.

Take away the psycho fans, the short sighted connections and the apparent weak schedule - what this mare does everytime she races is a treat to watch. The pawing, prancing, posing and come from behind wins are not something we will see many times in our lives. I just think that if you don't appreciate seeing this mare perform, you are truly missing something.

I've only been following racing for five years now, what other horses from the past have had this type of entertainment value? What other horses have created such crazed fan followings like this? Just curious...

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by DerbyCat

I can appreciate this comment... I just got home from a trip down south to see Zenyatta race and it was a great experience. Yes, she has some seriously rabid fans and it appears her connections have taken an "easy path" but the way I see it, they could have retired her at the end of last year but didn't - they kept her racing not only for the local fans enjoyment or their own but apparently Zenyatta enjoys still racing as well.

Take away the psycho fans, the short sighted connections and the apparent weak schedule - what this mare does everytime she races is a treat to watch. The pawing, prancing, posing and come from behind wins are not something we will see many times in our lives. I just think that if you don't appreciate seeing this mare perform, you are truly missing something.

I've only been following racing for five years now, what other horses from the past have had this type of entertainment value? What other horses have created such crazed fan followings like this? Just curious...

I watched a replay of her race on Sunday and it sent chills down my spine (or was vic's yelling hitting a nerve ) she's a great horse to watch and has an awesome will to win.

Rachel created a similar buzz in the East last year. The reception she got at Saratoga just isnt seen very often. Both coasts have their own female hero! And they are great for the sport (unfortunately it really hasnt created much outside interest) Tho its best to enjoy both of them, I think people naturally pick "sides"! They are like Tupac and Biggie LOL

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I watched a replay of her race on Sunday and it sent chills down my spine (or was vic's yelling hitting a nerve ) she's a great horse to watch and has an awesome will to win.

Rachel created a similar buzz in the East last year. The reception she got at Saratoga just isnt seen very often. Both coasts have their own female hero! And they are great for the sport (unfortunately it really hasnt created much outside interest) Tho its best to enjoy both of them, I think people naturally pick "sides"! They are like Tupac and Biggie LOL

Juicy

[OldDog]

Originally Posted by DerbyCat

- what this mare does everytime she races is a treat to watch. The pawing, prancing, posing and come from behind wins are not something we will see many times in our lives. I just think that if you don't appreciate seeing this mare perform, you are truly missing something.

Amen to that. I heard on the radio that Bob Baffert came out Sunday to see the Vanity. He didn't have any horses entered that day, but came specifically to see how Zenyatta would do.

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I watched a replay of her race on Sunday and it sent chills down my spine (or was vic's yelling hitting a nerve ) she's a great horse to watch and has an awesome will to win.

I've watched it several times now, both for the race itself and for the great call.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by OldDog

I've watched it several times now, both for the race itself and for the great call.

It was a good race call. You could definately feel Vic's excitement. (wait, that didnt sound right)

[chucklestheclown]

I think my point was made 32 posts ago. Keep arguing though; it is good for business.