Public will decide Monmouth's fate

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

There's something really nauseating about Jersey Breds running in an allowance race for 80k.

I know the first card will not be a fair representation of what will happen but that looks like a lot of the same old Monmouth horses running for far too much money.

NT

I fail to understand why anyone would care what Jersey breds ran for or why they would think that the horses are running for "far too much money"? I suppose that you could say the same thing about those who complain that professional athletes make too much money or movie stars make too much money yet will still watch the games and go to the movies. Perhaps you are just nauseated that one of those owners and trainers of the jersey breds or other horses on the card may actually make some money for a change for supporting the sport? I suppose that as long as you are providing the purse money via your bets you feel obligated to be critical of purse levels but of course in this case you are only providing a portion of the purse money. I'm sure that seeing that money flow back into the coffers of Donald Trump and company would be a much more heartwarming story.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I fail to understand why anyone would care what Jersey breds ran for or why they would think that the horses are running for "far too much money"? I suppose that you could say the same thing about those who complain that professional athletes make too much money or movie stars make too much money yet will still watch the games and go to the movies. Perhaps you are just nauseated that one of those owners and trainers of the jersey breds or other horses on the card may actually make some money for a change for supporting the sport? I suppose that as long as you are providing the purse money via your bets you feel obligated to be critical of purse levels but of course in this case you are only providing a portion of the purse money. I'm sure that seeing that money flow back into the coffers of Donald Trump and company would be a much more heartwarming story.

I'm entitled to my opinion because I have a pulse.

Don't castigate me for being for open company purses being higher and state bred purses being lower. I understand what you and other people involved in the game go through and I think it's great that the owners and trainers of Jersey breds are going to cash in but realistically, should there not be a limit?

Go look at the first race and tell me if those horses should be running for 40k. As a bettor I am for competitive racing and purses going to horses that fill competitive races. Congratulations on labeling me some type of elitist/pro-rich horseplayer, but yes, I'd rather see the Decathlon and Elkwood for 250k and the Jersey bred races for half of what they are.

NT

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I'm entitled to my opinion because I have a pulse.

Don't castigate me for being for open company purses being higher and state bred purses being lower. I understand what you and other people involved in the game go through and I think it's great that the owners and trainers of Jersey breds are going to cash in but realistically, should there not be a limit?

Go look at the first race and tell me if those horses should be running for 40k. As a bettor I am for competitive racing and purses going to horses that fill competitive races. Congratulations on labeling me some type of elitist/pro-rich horseplayer, but yes, I'd rather see the Decathlon and Elkwood for 250k and the Jersey bred races for half of what they are.

NT

Who said anything about not having an opinion? I just want to know why you think there should be some imaginary ceiling? Like you get less enjoyment out of cashing a ticket or more frustration out of losing a bet with in your view an exorbitant purse. You do realize that there is a reason in every horseman/track contract there is a clause that determines the % split between overnight and stakes right? You can take offense all you like but I asked a simple question.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Who said anything about not having an opinion? I just want to know why you think there should be some imaginary ceiling? Like you get less enjoyment out of cashing a ticket or more frustration out of losing a bet with in your view an exorbitant purse. You do realize that there is a reason in every horseman/track contract there is a clause that determines the % split between overnight and stakes right? You can take offense all you like but I asked a simple question.

Jersey breds have been running for increased purses for years. I don't have the numbers in front of me but I'm almost certain a Jersey bred N1X went for more money last year than an open N1X did at Monmouth. If Monmouth's initiative, with this influx of cash into the purse account is to increase field size which will in turn increase handle then why are the Jersey bred races kicked up so much? Those races generally drew large fields anyway. Now they're expecting the wagering public to swoon over fields of 50k Jersey bred maiden claimers running for a 40k purse?

State bred programs have done some good. I know that you and other people on this board have taken advantage of them in various states. I might be in the minority, but I would prefer open company races carrying larger purses, not the dollar for dollar match that Jersey bred N1X and MSW are vs. open N1X and MSW at Monmouth. Might I be wrong? Sure.

Maybe instead of making sure the J-Breds are so well taken care of the NJSEA can throw some of that coin back at the seasonal employees who took a 40% pay cut this year.

NT

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Jersey breds have been running for increased purses for years. I don't have the numbers in front of me but I'm almost certain a Jersey bred N1X went for more money last year than an open N1X did at Monmouth. If Monmouth's initiative, with this influx of cash into the purse account is to increase field size which will in turn increase handle then why are the Jersey bred races kicked up so much? Those races generally drew large fields anyway. Now they're expecting the wagering public to swoon over fields of 50k Jersey bred maiden claimers running for a 40k purse?

State bred programs have done some good. I know that you and other people on this board have taken advantage of them in various states. I might be in the minority, but I would prefer open company races carrying larger purses, not the dollar for dollar match that Jersey bred N1X and MSW are vs. open N1X and MSW at Monmouth. Might I be wrong? Sure.

Maybe instead of making sure the J-Breds are so well taken care of the NJSEA can throw some of that coin back at the seasonal employees who took a 40% pay cut this year.

NT

I guess you have never read one of my rants against statebred programs...
The abundance of NYbred races is something I have pointed out many times when discussing the deterioration of NY racing. They have there place but have been relied on too heavily IMO.
It really has nothing to do with them being Jerseybreds. It has to do with the thought that you have that seasonal employees or someone else "deserves" the money more. It is the horsemans money by contract, the tracks just dole it out. I'm sure you realize that as the role of politicians increases in the sport, things like suporting jobs (local horseman, breeders, etc) and local products including horses is a tradeoff. As a matter of fact I would guarantee you that there is a stipulation in the contract that mandates the number of races and purses paid out to statebreds. Would it be better to cut the purses in half and run twice as many NJB races?

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I guess you have never read one of my rants against statebred programs...
The abundance of NYbred races is something I have pointed out many times when discussing the deterioration of NY racing. They have there place but have been relied on too heavily IMO.
It really has nothing to do with them being Jerseybreds. It has to do with the thought that you have that seasonal employees or someone else "deserves" the money more. It is the horsemans money by contract, the tracks just dole it out. I'm sure you realize that as the role of politicians increases in the sport, things like suporting jobs (local horseman, breeders, etc) and local products including horses is a tradeoff. As a matter of fact I would guarantee you that there is a stipulation in the contract that mandates the number of races and purses paid out to statebreds. Would it be better to cut the purses in half and run twice as many NJB races?

Basically then we're lamenting the same thing. I know that the jobs are not applicable but did want to mention in the entire discussion that there are a lot of employees getting shafted.

The NY bred purses have been reduced recently. Are there still too many NY bred races? Sure. I've believed for quite some time that the proliferation of the La Bred program has kept FG from becoming a premier winter signal.

I guess my issue is that you have horses that are worth X amount, who would run for X amount and are actually running for X times 5. Is it a big deal? Not really, but 80k for Jersey bred MSWs is an awful lot. If I start rolling quarters now and turning in cans do you think you could find one for me and you to claim?

NT

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Basically then we're lamenting the same thing. I know that the jobs are not applicable but did want to mention in the entire discussion that there are a lot of employees getting shafted.

The NY bred purses have been reduced recently. Are there still too many NY bred races? Sure. I've believed for quite some time that the proliferation of the La Bred program has kept FG from becoming a premier winter signal.

I guess my issue is that you have horses that are worth X amount, who would run for X amount and are actually running for X times 5. Is it a big deal? Not really, but 80k for Jersey bred MSWs is an awful lot. If I start rolling quarters now and turning in cans do you think you could find one for me and you to claim?

NT

I agree that 80k is kind of crazy for that class of horse but there are reasons beyond the obvious why they are as we have discussed. I thought that 18k was a lot for kickin n screamins race yesterday based on the quality or lack of quality. But a lot of that is because we have been conditioned to smaller purses that were the norm for so long. Higher purses will lead to better quality over the long haul though in Monmouths case who knows how long this will play out. believe me there are a lot of people who have asked the same question about Jersey breds and if you could guarantee that those purses would be in effect for say 10 years you would see a definite increase in the quality of NJ breds. The quality of (non-Strawbridge) PA breds will dramatically increase over the next few years because people have sent a whole lot of pretty good mares there in foal to good stallions. The program was almost dormant but now the Breeders awards and purse incentives are so good that a lot of KY breeders are dropping a significant amount of their horses there. It is hard to see now but it is coming. That doesn't mean that Philly park is going to become Belmont but better horses does equal better races. Naturally the takeout issues among others still remain there but the racing has gotten better and should improve as people look to run the better bred PA breds there for the incentives.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I'm entitled to my opinion because I have a pulse.

Don't castigate me for being for open company purses being higher and state bred purses being lower. I understand what you and other people involved in the game go through and I think it's great that the owners and trainers of Jersey breds are going to cash in but realistically, should there not be a limit?

Go look at the first race and tell me if those horses should be running for 40k. As a bettor I am for competitive racing and purses going to horses that fill competitive races. Congratulations on labeling me some type of elitist/pro-rich horseplayer, but yes, I'd rather see the Decathlon and Elkwood for 250k and the Jersey bred races for half of what they are.

NT

Why not? Would you prefer they run for $20k just like they always have, so the owner can win a race and still lose money on the year?

What type of fields would the Decathlon and Elkwood get for $250K? Answer: the same ones.