Zenyatta v. Rail Trip??

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Vic, Vic, Vic

Why do you insist on engaging these IDIOTS? Just do what I do: remind them that THEIR horse, RA, FAILED to make the BC and the AB. And, that THEIR horse hasn't exactly distinguished herself this year. They somehow always seem to forget this. When your team doesn't SHOW UP, typically you STFU. Which is precisely what RA's connections have done.

The Zenyatta crew can do whatever they want: they honored their obligations.

It's hard to believe that these simple facts constantly ELUDE the IDIOTS here. I mean, they need to give it a ****in' rest already; this isn't Special Olympics posting.

As the one who started this thread, I'll confess that in the Zenyatta v. RA discussion, I came down on the Zenyatta side. As a Zenyatta fan, I'd like to see what she can do when tested. Along those lines, when they "unretired" Zenyatta, the Mosses stated that the whole point of bringing Zenyatta back this year, having won the BC Classic at 10F against males, was to do something different and challenge their mare. Judged against that standard, a decision to run against what likely would be a field of allowance caliber of fillies in the Vanity rather than against the top handicap male on the West Coast in an historic race would be rather disappointing. And at that point, it's hard to defend against the criticism that her connections have carefully picked a "cupcake" schedule for their mare.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

As the one who started this thread, I'll confess that in the Zenyatta v. RA discussion, I came down on the Zenyatta side. As a Zenyatta fan, I'd like to see what she can do when tested. Along those lines, when they "unretired" Zenyatta, the Mosses stated that the whole point of bringing Zenyatta back this year, having won the BC Classic at 10F against males, was to do something different and challenge their mare. Judged against that standard, a decision to run against what likely would be a field of allowance caliber of fillies in the Vanity rather than against the top handicap male on the West Coast in an historic race would be rather disappointing. And at that point, it's hard to defend against the criticism that her connections have carefully picked a "cupcake" schedule for their mare.

Yeah

So, we haven't yet come to a consensus that Z is the best FEMALE currently in training, as the RA contingent would tell you that RA is still better. But let's assume, so I can make a reasonable point, that Z is the best MARE in training presently. Why then don't some of the other top fillies/mares in the country get their asses over to CALI and run against her? Or, if their connections don't want to ship across the country (as Z's crew is criticized for not doing more often) why not just start squaring off against the best males? Certainly, if they could beat some of the better males, then an argument could be made that they're better than Z. What's the problem, THEIR connections don't have the NUTS to map out CHALLENGING campaigns for them? Who the **** with a decent horse wants to pick the most challenging races ALL the time? For the most part, they pick out a few races a year they point to. For you, however, it's not enough that this mare was prepared for the AB or that she's being pointed for the BC. She absolutely, positively must face, arguably, the best male out in CALI in order for her connections to be doing the right thing. I don't see QR running a bunch of races and shipping all over the place. He's being pointed to a few key races for the year. Oh, but wait, he got TESTED down in Florida didn't he?
He went up against some real tough competition down there.

Let's hold Z to different standards, however.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Who the **** with a decent horse wants to pick the most challenging races ALL the time? For the most part, they pick out a few races a year they point to.

I agree, and Zenyatta hasn't faced a "challenging" field yet this year (although the Apple Blossom was no fault of hers). Now is the time to challenge her, in a race over her home track.

Just like RA had nothing to do with the original topic, neither did Quality Road. However, if Quality Road were to win the Met Mile and Whitney while Zenyatta continues to beat up on SoCal females, Zenyatta's connections will put her in the position where she has to win the BC Classic to win a HOY title.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

I agree, and Zenyatta hasn't faced a "challenging" field yet this year (although the Apple Blossom was no fault of hers). Now is the time to challenge her, in a race over her home track.

Just like RA had nothing to do with the original topic, neither did Quality Road. However, if Quality Road were to win the Met Mile and Whitney while Zenyatta continues to beat up on SoCal females, Zenyatta's connections will put her in the position where she has to win the BC Classic to win a HOY title.

Depends on who QR beats in these races. If it's the same contingent he handled down in Florida, or that RA beat last year, then I'm not buying it. Any 'special' older males running this year? It certainly doesn't appear that there's a special 3 year old this year. And, let's face it, QR is not going 10F down at CD.

If I owned this mare and I brought her back, at an age when most would retire her, because I felt that she should've been Horse of the Year last year, why would I go out of my way to put her under extra pressure? Especially when the reigning Horse of the Year doesn't appear up to it this year.

This is not to say that RT, or anything else out in CALI, offers much in the way of competion for her in a fairly run race.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Depends on who QR beats in these races. If it's the same contingent he handled down in Florida, or that RA beat last year, then I'm not buying it. Any 'special' older males running this year? It certainly doesn't appear that there's a special 3 year old this year. And, let's face it, QR is not going 10F down at CD.

Actually, if Zenyatta continues to simply face females, it probably won't, because of the competition that Zenyatta will have faced in the Apple Blossom and is likely to face in SoCal F/M races. Even if the Donn, Met Mile and Whitney were to turn up (by historical standards) sub-par races, HOY voters are probably going to favor the horse that won those races over the horse that won the Santa Margarita, Apple Blossom and Vanity. If Zenyatta were to win a race like the Hollywood Gold Cup against the top handicap horse on the West Coast, it completely changes the equation.

[zippyneedsawin]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Depends on who QR beats in these races. If it's the same contingent he handled down in Florida, or that RA beat last year, then I'm not buying it. Any 'special' older males running this year? It certainly doesn't appear that there's a special 3 year old this year. And, let's face it, QR is not going 10F down at CD.

If I owned this mare and I brought her back, at an age when most would retire her, because I felt that she should've been Horse of the Year last year, why would I go out of my way to put her under extra pressure? Especially when the reigning Horse of the Year doesn't appear up to it this year.

This is not to say that RT, or anything else out in CALI, offers much in the way of competion for her in a fairly run race.

Like open company versus restricted?

[letswastemoney]

But will there still be free Zenyatta bobbleheads if she runs in the HGC instead????

[Smooth Operator]

Ah, can't ya just feel the love in the air here at DT … lol


Would've been great to see Z in that Foster, but can't blame the connections AT ALL for pointing her to the Vanity again instead.

She's on the verge of doing something historic … and obviously has a better chance of breaking the record by racing at home against females.

Doing anything else AT THIS POINT would be foolish, in my estimation.


If things go as planned in the V, wouldn't be surprised if they point her to the Gold Cup NEXT.

[Mawhip]

I love how everyone applauds the Mosses for keeping her in training. They guy is in his mid 70's. The chances of seeing Zenyatta's babies run is not great. Further is there any guarantee they will be any good. It certainly looks like they enjoy watching her win. Why would they have retired her if she's sound. Especially since they are going to run her against creme puffs all year.

[CSC]

I agree with those that say Rachel is not part of this discussion, when and if she can beat the likes of a Zardana and or Unrivaled Belle then yes, maybe she can be mentioned with a horse of Zenyatta's ability again. I will reserve judgment until after 2010 to see who and what she faces this year. The BC Classic is the goal, it's on dirt and it's against males, so if she fulfills that critaria a matchup with Rail Trip will be a blip on the radar. If I had my choice the 2 races are not even close in terms of stature, just as the Woodward and the Classic aren't, I wouldn't want Zenyatta to have the excuse of racing too hard early in the year and then miss the championship game as you know who did last year.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Like last year, right?

In CSC's defense, she has already jogged around the track twice against allowance company before the date that she had even started 2009's ambitious, pant-wetting, thrilling campaign for the ages that solidified her place in the record books as best horse EVAR.

I, for one, am equally concerned about public workouts taking the starch out of her before the big day.