Zenyatta v. Rail Trip??

[the_fat_man]

You have a horse that's never lost. And, she's never lost by running a single way. This means she needs to have, essentially, the same 'setup' every time she runs. In other words, she DICTATES setup, which is something that, pretty much, no other horse has done -- at least not running from way back.

So, the end result is:

1) constant criticism that she doesn't run FAST enough. (And that even the present RA would beat her)

2) She's beating NOBODIES

Well, 1) is just a result of the present rating system in place. Since this isn't irrefragible, who cares what the numbers say?

And, for 2), she showed up when it counted. Why in the world do her connections need to give her HARD races? She'll be there for the BC; I could care less what she does till then.

I just don't get why a horse that has done something so unique needs to constantly be criticized. If this isn't IGNORANCE, I don't know what is. This si MIKE the EUNUCH BS.

the_fag_man always goes after RA and the connections for ducking the BC and Apple Blossom.

But Zenyatta's connections are above criticism. Lets forget about the Woodward last year. That doesn't count. The sissies weren't butthurt over an award at that time. Bravery doesn't count until the Eclipse awards happened.

GET IT RIGHT YOU MORANS!! MOMMY ISSUES!

[Duvalier]

Wait for "The Great Sportsman" Jess Jackson to respond in a press conference...he was mapping out a 3 race series for Zenyatta earlier in the year. I'm sure by now he has made a few revisions and will gladly pass them along to the Mosses at a later date.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Vic, Vic, Vic

Why do you insist on engaging these IDIOTS? Just do what I do: remind them that THEIR horse, RA, FAILED to make the BC and the AB. And, that THEIR horse hasn't exactly distinguished herself this year. They somehow always seem to forget this. When your team doesn't SHOW UP, typically you STFU. Which is precisely what RA's connections have done.

The Zenyatta crew can do whatever they want: they honored their obligations.

It's hard to believe that these simple facts constantly ELUDE the IDIOTS here. I mean, they need to give it a ****in' rest already; this isn't Special Olympics posting.

As the one who started this thread, I'll confess that in the Zenyatta v. RA discussion, I came down on the Zenyatta side. As a Zenyatta fan, I'd like to see what she can do when tested. Along those lines, when they "unretired" Zenyatta, the Mosses stated that the whole point of bringing Zenyatta back this year, having won the BC Classic at 10F against males, was to do something different and challenge their mare. Judged against that standard, a decision to run against what likely would be a field of allowance caliber of fillies in the Vanity rather than against the top handicap male on the West Coast in an historic race would be rather disappointing. And at that point, it's hard to defend against the criticism that her connections have carefully picked a "cupcake" schedule for their mare.

[blackthroatedwind]

This gets to the heart of the Zenyatta discussion.....instead of ever focusing on the discussion at hand, those that blindly defend Zenyatta ( not those that realistically discuss her ) have to turn to Rachel Alexandra, even though she has absolutely ZERO to do with the current topic.

The valid point was, since she is staying home at Hollywood, she should face Rail Trip, arguably one of the top horses in training, in the marquis race at Zenyatta's home and favorite track, Hollywood Park. I don't see how any racing fan could argue with this. If, instead, she runs in the Vanity, it becomes more clear that it is not shipping she is avoiding, but the toughest possible competition.

I know I would be disappointed, as a Rail Trip/Zenyatta matchup would be very exciting....and even in possible defeat Zenyatta would enhance her reputation. Let's hope it happens.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

As the one who started this thread, I'll confess that in the Zenyatta v. RA discussion, I came down on the Zenyatta side. As a Zenyatta fan, I'd like to see what she can do when tested. Along those lines, when they "unretired" Zenyatta, the Mosses stated that the whole point of bringing Zenyatta back this year, having won the BC Classic at 10F against males, was to do something different and challenge their mare. Judged against that standard, a decision to run against what likely would be a field of allowance caliber of fillies in the Vanity rather than against the top handicap male on the West Coast in an historic race would be rather disappointing. And at that point, it's hard to defend against the criticism that her connections have carefully picked a "cupcake" schedule for their mare.

Yeah

So, we haven't yet come to a consensus that Z is the best FEMALE currently in training, as the RA contingent would tell you that RA is still better. But let's assume, so I can make a reasonable point, that Z is the best MARE in training presently. Why then don't some of the other top fillies/mares in the country get their asses over to CALI and run against her? Or, if their connections don't want to ship across the country (as Z's crew is criticized for not doing more often) why not just start squaring off against the best males? Certainly, if they could beat some of the better males, then an argument could be made that they're better than Z. What's the problem, THEIR connections don't have the NUTS to map out CHALLENGING campaigns for them? Who the **** with a decent horse wants to pick the most challenging races ALL the time? For the most part, they pick out a few races a year they point to. For you, however, it's not enough that this mare was prepared for the AB or that she's being pointed for the BC. She absolutely, positively must face, arguably, the best male out in CALI in order for her connections to be doing the right thing. I don't see QR running a bunch of races and shipping all over the place. He's being pointed to a few key races for the year. Oh, but wait, he got TESTED down in Florida didn't he?
He went up against some real tough competition down there.

Let's hold Z to different standards, however.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I know I would be disappointed, as a Rail Trip/Zenyatta matchup would be very exciting....and even in possible defeat Zenyatta would enhance her reputation. Let's hope it happens.

Really? Weren't you a strong detractor of RT just last year? How does she 'enhance' her reputation by losing to a 'distance challenged' horse? Of course, he now has a real jock.

What do you envision: a MILE match race?

[CSC]

I agree with those that say Rachel is not part of this discussion, when and if she can beat the likes of a Zardana and or Unrivaled Belle then yes, maybe she can be mentioned with a horse of Zenyatta's ability again. I will reserve judgment until after 2010 to see who and what she faces this year. The BC Classic is the goal, it's on dirt and it's against males, so if she fulfills that critaria a matchup with Rail Trip will be a blip on the radar. If I had my choice the 2 races are not even close in terms of stature, just as the Woodward and the Classic aren't, I wouldn't want Zenyatta to have the excuse of racing too hard early in the year and then miss the championship game as you know who did last year.

Originally Posted by Cardus

Forget this year: he wraps up the decade.

I'd just like to make it through the decade with a job.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Like last year, right?

In CSC's defense, she has already jogged around the track twice against allowance company before the date that she had even started 2009's ambitious, pant-wetting, thrilling campaign for the ages that solidified her place in the record books as best horse EVAR.

I, for one, am equally concerned about public workouts taking the starch out of her before the big day.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

If Team Zenyatta is going to insist on staying California for her next race, who wouldn't want to see her take on Rail Trip, who looked real good yesterday, in the Hollywood Gold Cup? If they opt for the (pointless) Vanity, they deserve all the abuse showered their way.

She has already proven she can handle males on synth, if beating Gio Ponti and gang in the classic was not enough to appease her naysayers what is beating Rail Trip in the Hollywood Gold Cup to prove? Her final test is to beyer 115, win on dirt and beat the classic field at CD's, if she can throw in a race against males in the fall as the Goodward as a prep I can see this being a far more logical campaign that will hopefully make everyone happy

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Who the **** with a decent horse wants to pick the most challenging races ALL the time? For the most part, they pick out a few races a year they point to.

I agree, and Zenyatta hasn't faced a "challenging" field yet this year (although the Apple Blossom was no fault of hers). Now is the time to challenge her, in a race over her home track.

Just like RA had nothing to do with the original topic, neither did Quality Road. However, if Quality Road were to win the Met Mile and Whitney while Zenyatta continues to beat up on SoCal females, Zenyatta's connections will put her in the position where she has to win the BC Classic to win a HOY title.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Cardus

I routinely forget that racing is all about the Breeders' Cup. I better get on board, and quick.

That's where the money and 99% of the connections in the world are pointing for, since it is on dirt this year, I thought you would agree.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Really? Weren't you a strong detractor of RT just last year? How does she 'enhance' her reputation by losing to a 'distance challenged' horse? Of course, he now has a real jock.

What do you envision: a MILE match race?

What does this have to do with the topic?

Yes, I was wrong about Rail Trip. Happy? I doubt it....as you are as miserable as they come.

Now, that we have gotten past that, try to actually make one post that is related to the actual discussion. Surely you can do this once.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

I agree, and Zenyatta hasn't faced a "challenging" field yet this year (although the Apple Blossom was no fault of hers). Now is the time to challenge her, in a race over her home track.

Just like RA had nothing to do with the original topic, neither did Quality Road. However, if Quality Road were to win the Met Mile and Whitney while Zenyatta continues to beat up on SoCal females, Zenyatta's connections will put her in the position where she has to win the BC Classic to win a HOY title.

Depends on who QR beats in these races. If it's the same contingent he handled down in Florida, or that RA beat last year, then I'm not buying it. Any 'special' older males running this year? It certainly doesn't appear that there's a special 3 year old this year. And, let's face it, QR is not going 10F down at CD.

If I owned this mare and I brought her back, at an age when most would retire her, because I felt that she should've been Horse of the Year last year, why would I go out of my way to put her under extra pressure? Especially when the reigning Horse of the Year doesn't appear up to it this year.

This is not to say that RT, or anything else out in CALI, offers much in the way of competion for her in a fairly run race.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by CSC

She has already proven she can handle males on synth, if beating Gio Ponti and gang in the classic was not enough to appease her naysayers what is beating Rail Trip in the Hollywood Gold Cup to prove? Her final test is to beyer 115, win on dirt and beat the classic field at CD's, if she can throw in a race against males in the fall as the Goodward as a prep I can see this being a far more logical campaign that will hopefully make everyone happy

Actually, as Cardus points out, there is more to racing than the Breeders' Cup, and who's to say that she'll even make it to that race six months from now.

We all know that she'll probably only have, at most, four lifetime starts. And I think it's a pretty safe bet to say that, if she's racing in the fall, the final two starts of her career would likely be the the race formerly known as the Lady's Secret and the BC Classic. (And for the reason TFM noted above, I'd have no problem with the Lady's Secret, knowing it was a prep for the Classic.) There is absolutely no excuse for her not to run in the Hollywood Gold Cup, unless the mid-season portion of her campaign is simply about ducking meaningful competition until the Breeders' Cup.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Depends on who QR beats in these races. If it's the same contingent he handled down in Florida, or that RA beat last year, then I'm not buying it. Any 'special' older males running this year? It certainly doesn't appear that there's a special 3 year old this year. And, let's face it, QR is not going 10F down at CD.

Actually, if Zenyatta continues to simply face females, it probably won't, because of the competition that Zenyatta will have faced in the Apple Blossom and is likely to face in SoCal F/M races. Even if the Donn, Met Mile and Whitney were to turn up (by historical standards) sub-par races, HOY voters are probably going to favor the horse that won those races over the horse that won the Santa Margarita, Apple Blossom and Vanity. If Zenyatta were to win a race like the Hollywood Gold Cup against the top handicap horse on the West Coast, it completely changes the equation.

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

I'd just like to make it through the decade with a job.

Hey Vic did ya catch The Lone Star Derby yesterday? Great race.

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by Cardus

I didn't see Rachel Alexandra's name mentioned until your post, Fat Man.

This is some thread. It has both TFM and Stauffer. Not sure who is more of a grade one jacka##. Although I gotta give Stauffer an iota of credit. He doesn't start threads mentioning rides by Tim Thornton on 6-5 shots. That was a beaut by TFM. He must hold the record for most threads started with ZERO replies.

Stuaffer though really needs to stay off the internet...........

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

I'm not trying to fool anyone. I don't care if you think I'm classy or not. I don't have to answer to internet posters.

Of course I would love to have the opportunity to call Zenyatta and Rail Trip. Who wouldn't?

My only opinion is that to say that Zenyatta's team DESERVES ABUSE is a ridiculous joke of a post.

99 of a hundred people would have retired her. Sherriffs and the Moss's brought her back and DESERVE ABUSE for mapping her campaign as they see fit?

Forget this year. That wraps up the decade!!!

Actually Vic, if real racing fans had a choice of seeing Zenyatta campaign the same old boring "run vs 5 horse fields of mediocre horses in So-Cal" or staying retired most would say stay retired.

I was one of the ones who applauded The Mosses for coming back......hoping that with The BC being at CD in 2010 they would try something different and campaign outside of So-Cal. Yes they did ship to OP which was great. But instead of going to CD and run in a real race (Stephen Foster ) on the same track as The BC, they once again take the easy way out. Nice race for ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZenyata coming up at HP.

But of course since you are the race caller for HP you probably think it's great that the Mosses are running at your home track against probably 5 optional claimers. Hopefully Mr. Moss grows some balls and at least runs vs Railbird in The Gold Cup after Zenyatta wins her next practice race.