Noble's Promise: Did Willie Cost him at least a placing?

philcski · #1 05-02-2010, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Phil-

Is it fair to say that moving early changed the dynamics of the race to his detriment and to the benefit of the winner?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Let me clarify what I mean by that last post. If he waits, lets say he drafts behind the speed for another 1/16th of a mile until the top of the stretch, he can wait for the rail to open up as the speed holds on a little longer. Does the winner have to wait then or go wide? Does he get into traffic problems and possibly get into a mucky situation with paddy oprado and the rest of the oncoming stampede all of the while giving Nobles promise a clear run on a track he clearly relished?

I don't think he beats ice box either way. My point is that the race would have most likely changed.

No.

The horse stopped late, plain and simple. He couldn't get a mile and a quarter. So what, it happens. Pedigree isn't an exact science but some inferences can be made on what horses will prefer to do. I don't know how anyone can argue that when a horse gets beat by 6-7 lengths in two furlongs without any trouble that it would have been different if he waited 6 more seconds to give him everything he's got.

dalakhani · #2 05-02-2010, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

No.

The horse stopped late, plain and simple. He couldn't get a mile and a quarter. So what, it happens. Pedigree isn't an exact science but some inferences can be made on what horses will prefer to do. I don't know how anyone can argue that when a horse gets beat by 6-7 lengths in two furlongs without any trouble that it would have been different if he waited 6 more seconds to give him everything he's got.

I hear you and you may very well be right. I just think that in a race like the derby, especially the way this one set up, that the premature move could have had a huge impact on the way this race was run in the stretch. There is no denying that the winner got the ultimate trip. What if he has to check or hesitate on the turn? Does he still beat NP by 6-7 lengths?

Danzig · #3 05-02-2010, 10:40 PM

i don't think there's any way willie was staying in the top three with that horse. he's a good horse, but it was just too far for him. same finish position as in the arkansas derby.

philcski · #4 05-02-2010, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani

I hear you and you may very well be right. I just think that in a race like the derby, especially the way this one set up, that the premature move could have had a huge impact on the way this race was run in the stretch. There is no denying that the winner got the ultimate trip. What if he has to check or hesitate on the turn? Does he still beat NP by 6-7 lengths?

No... only 5 1/2 lengths.

dalakhani · #5 05-02-2010, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

No... only 5 1/2 lengths.

LOL

I'm giving up my hypothesis. On to Pimlico...and the crackheads.

philcski · #6 05-02-2010, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani

LOL

I'm giving up my hypothesis. On to Pimlico...and the crackheads.

LOL

Sorry for being a smartass.

I'm thinking about driving up. Would be the first missed Preakness since 1996 for me if I don't. Are you going?

dalakhani · #7 05-02-2010, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

LOL

Sorry for being a smartass.

I'm thinking about driving up. Would be the first missed Preakness since 1996 for me if I don't. Are you going?

strongly considering. Probably 60-40 to go. Let me know if you decide to go.

Those pick 4's, none of which i hit, were quite hittable and quite large. Always depressing after the fact.

philcski · #8 05-02-2010, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani

strongly considering. Probably 60-40 to go. Let me know if you decide to go.

Those pick 4's, none of which i hit, were quite hittable and quite large. Always depressing after the fact.

Agreed. I bet one race all day, despite being at CD from the 8th on- it was a very hectic and not very enjoyable for most of the day. Don't know if I would have come up with General Quarters in the pick 4 though, even if I went thin in the Derby.

Trying to talk the wife into it. We will let you know.

ateamstupid · #9 05-02-2010, 11:21 PM

Approximate internal fractions, FWIW:

Super Saver: 23.53, 47.31, 1:11.64, 1:37.90, 2:04.45 (:26.55 last 1/4)
Noble's Promise: 23.57, 47.06, 1:11.15, 1:37.65, 2:05.43 (:27.78 last 1/4)

philcski · #10 05-02-2010, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Approximate internal fractions, FWIW:

Super Saver: 23.53, 47.31, 1:11.64, 1:37.90, 2:04.45 (:26.55 last 1/4)
Noble's Promise: 23.57, 47.06, 1:11.15, 1:37.65, 2:05.43 (:27.78 last 1/4)

Time doesn't MATTER unless you're in JAIL.