La Troienne discussion

Smooth Operator · #1 05-02-2010, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny pinwheel

you hit the nail on the head. her best race was the preakness, she loves the mud so the haskell was a given.(summerbird is a 10 furlong horse) she wanted no part of the travers at 10 furlongs and ran against bullsbay and macho again who proved the ability they have with yet another crummy effort yesterday. she was dressed up in almost every race but the preakness. yeah, she had a good run but these people that made her some sort of super horse have to face reality this year. it was not that hard to see this coming. shes a good horse but shes no zenyatta.

Fine work there, johnny

You too, JBJake

Just a GD SHAME that she was SO OVER-HYPED by the media last year that it cost a truly great mare the award she deserved…

outofthebox · #2 05-02-2010, 12:15 PM

Im Glad they did not retire Affirmed after he lost 4 in a row. And take away his HOY award when he was beaten by a better horse Seattle Slew twice. Affirmed was HOY, Slew the better horse big deal. Rachel was HOY last year, Zenyatta the better horse..Big deal. I have no problem thinking Zenyatta is the better of the two, i do have a problem thinking she had the best year of anyone last year. Like i said earlier, i hope there is no retirement in the plans. Affirmed lost to a cal bred sprinter (Little Reb) and an arizona bred (Radar Ahead) to start off his 4yo campain. Thank god their connections did not give up on him.keep Rachel running!

Smooth Operator · #3 05-02-2010, 01:20 PM

Aff did something very special in '78, outofthebox.

RA beat SB (in his prep race for the Travers) … and MA in the Woodward … barely.

Nuff said

philcski · #4 05-04-2010, 11:00 AM

I hate to resurrect this thread, but I just watched the replay again and Rachel is racing in a figure-8 noseband (they're used, among other things, to reduce pulling by a horse) and was in the New Orleans as well. Not sure why Asmussen would make this significant of a change, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

#5 05-04-2010, 11:03 AM

This is Smooth Operator being consoled after the Eclipse Awards...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee925OTFBCA

TouchOfGrey · #6 05-04-2010, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

I hate to resurrect this thread, but I just watched the replay again and Rachel is racing in a figure-8 noseband (they're used, among other things, to reduce pulling by a horse) and was in the New Orleans as well. Not sure why Asmussen would make this significant of a change, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I've been wondering about the possible effects of the figure-eight myself. Could it be backing her off too much?

CSC · #7 05-04-2010, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

I hate to resurrect this thread, but I just watched the replay again and Rachel is racing in a figure-8 noseband (they're used, among other things, to reduce pulling by a horse) and was in the New Orleans as well. Not sure why Asmussen would make this significant of a change, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I hate to give a serious answer, however if you look at the races she was most vulnerable in last year and not the white washes, but more in particular the Preakness and Woodward, they obviously noticed a vulnerability in her style. They tried to improve her by getting her to run more kindly early on and it hasn't worked. Now it is up to each person to decide if she is really the horse as she displayed in the Preakness or Woodward or the horse she was in the Haskell. I think what should be more a concern for her fans is the lack of good cruising speed she has thus far shown this year, if she doesn't have that she will have a hard time beating Zenyatta if that is even on the radar anymore, nevermind even winning a gr. 1 race this year.

philcski · #8 05-04-2010, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TouchOfGrey

I've been wondering about the possible effects of the figure-eight myself. Could it be backing her off too much?

I think it is. Would like to see it removed and return to a standard bridle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC

I hate to give a serious answer, however if you look at the races she was most vulnerable in last year and not the white washes, but more in particular the Preakness and Woodward, they obviously noticed a vulnerability in her style. They tried to improve her by getting her to run more kindly early on and it hasn't worked. Now it is up to each person to decide if she is really the horse as she displayed in the Preakness or Woodward or the horse she was in the Haskell. I think what should be more a concern for her fans is the lack of good cruising speed she has thus far shown this year, if she doesn't have that she will have a hard time beating Zenyatta if that is even on the radar anymore, nevermind even winning a gr. 1 race this year.

I'm guessing you're correct on why he put it on, but it was probably the wrong move, because like I said if it ain't broke don't fix it.

By the way, why do you "hate to give a serious answer?"

CSC · #9 05-04-2010, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

I think it is. Would like to see it removed and return to a standard bridle.

I'm guessing you're correct on why he put it on, but it was probably the wrong move, because like I said if it ain't broke don't fix it.

By the way, why do you "hate to give a serious answer?"

Trainers are always in the process of tweaking things, I'm sure they are considering going back to what worked last year. Who knows maybe a jockey change is also in store, which in my opinion would be a bad move.

Cannon Shell · #10 05-04-2010, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

I hate to resurrect this thread, but I just watched the replay again and Rachel is racing in a figure-8 noseband (they're used, among other things, to reduce pulling by a horse) and was in the New Orleans as well. Not sure why Asmussen would make this significant of a change, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

A figure 8 is not a signifigant change of equipment. Figure 8's do not reduce pulling by a thoroughbred racehorse. As a matter of fact a figure 8 can do the opposite but in most cases it really doesnt do much of anything except make trainer feel like they have done something.

What you are looking for is the real reasoning behind the change which is not necessarily the same as what would be given in public

philcski · #11 05-04-2010, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

A figure 8 is not a signifigant change of equipment. Figure 8's do not reduce pulling by a thoroughbred racehorse. As a matter of fact a figure 8 can do the opposite but in most cases it really doesnt do much of anything except make trainer feel like they have done something.

What you are looking for is the real reasoning behind the change which is not necessarily the same as what would be given in public

My wife disagrees with this... and I've always known it to be something to "gather" the horse so they don't run off and jump off the bit. Maybe it doesn't matter as much in a racehorse since you're not interacting with the horse through the bit as much.

I know it's not a huge change, and as you said we will never know what the change was for.

CSC · #12 05-04-2010, 04:50 PM

Isn't there an unwritten rule in horseracing you DO NOT replace a rider on a winning mount until they actually have lost? If it has happened during the triple crown series this would be a great trivia question.

Cannon Shell · #13 05-04-2010, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

My wife disagrees with this... and I've always known it to be something to "gather" the horse so they don't run off and jump off the bit. Maybe it doesn't matter as much in a racehorse since you're not interacting with the horse through the bit as much.

I know it's not a huge change, and as you said we will never know what the change was for.

There isnt much gathering done at 38mph.

3kings · #14 05-04-2010, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

My wife disagrees with this... and I've always known it to be something to "gather" the horse so they don't run off and jump off the bit. Maybe it doesn't matter as much in a racehorse since you're not interacting with the horse through the bit as much.

I know it's not a huge change, and as you said we will never know what the change was for.

Phil, I know we havn't met so this may be inappropriate but your wife prefers the figure 8? If you are going in that direction you may have to move this to the esoteric section.

outofthebox · #15 05-04-2010, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

A figure 8 is not a signifigant change of equipment. Figure 8's do not reduce pulling by a thoroughbred racehorse. As a matter of fact a figure 8 can do the opposite but in most cases it really doesnt do much of anything except make trainer feel like they have done something.

What you are looking for is the real reasoning behind the change which is not necessarily the same as what would be given in public

Doen't Ass use this on all his horses whether they need it or not..Like Pletcher and his drop nosebands.

Cannon Shell · #16 05-04-2010, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outofthebox

Doen't Ass use this on all his horses whether they need it or not..Like Pletcher and his drop nosebands.

Pretty much. That and the neck strap. Nick zito and the small shadow rolls. Mack Miller and the big shadow rolls.

Duvalier · #17 05-04-2010, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

A figure 8 is not a signifigant change of equipment. Figure 8's do not reduce pulling by a thoroughbred racehorse. As a matter of fact a figure 8 can do the opposite but in most cases it really doesnt do much of anything except make trainer feel like they have done something.

What you are looking for is the real reasoning behind the change which is not necessarily the same as what would be given in public

Chuck...what would be the reason a trainer would make a change to a figure 8? What is it supposed to accomplish?

Indian Charlie · #18 05-04-2010, 06:16 PM

The funny thing is Danzig, RA's last race would still probably beat 'Big Z'.

Cannon Shell · #19 05-04-2010, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duvalier

Chuck...what would be the reason a trainer would make a change to a figure 8? What is it supposed to accomplish?

Generally a figure 8 is used for a horse that flips its palate. As Outofthebox said he uses it on a lot of horses and in attempting to get her rate perhaps he was worried about holding her hard and her flipping her palate? That is just speculation, I have no inside knowledge of why he made the change. But in my experience I can't ever remember a horse running worse because they wore a figure 8 though it has helped some run better. A tongue tie is the most signifigant equip change that isnt reported. Nosebands, fig8's, shadow rolls,drop nosebands, etc can all be helpful to a degree but arent that signifigant. Now the type of bit in the horses mouth can be a big positive or negative but is too broad of a subject to accurately discuss here. While I understand people wondering if it has made a difference in her performance, I have a hardtime making the connection.