La Troienne discussion

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

If they retire her it would be a mistake. The main track was hmm awkward.

It certainly didn't favor frontrunners.

Horses on the lead after a half on the main track finished 3rd, 4th, 9th, 2nd (Rachel), 3rd, 8th, 3rd, and 2nd.

Horses to win came from 7th of 8, 3rd of 11, 5th of 10, 3rd of 6, 4th of 5, 4th of 9, 14th of 14, and 2nd of 8.

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Im not understanding how people are blaming the rider here. What did he do wrong? He sat right off a relatively slow pace and pounced around the turn. What was he supposed to do? She didnt get checked or have anyone traffic problems and he didnt get her into any kind of duel.

Calvin did his job. If she was good enough today, she wins. She wasn't good enough today.

I agree with this.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by philcski

It certainly didn't favor frontrunners.

Horses on the lead after a half on the main track finished 3rd, 4th, 9th, 2nd (Rachel), 3rd, 8th, 3rd, and 2nd.

Horses to win came from 7th of 8, 3rd of 11, 5th of 10, 3rd of 6, 4th of 5, 4th of 9, 14th of 14, and 2nd of 8.

Let's break this down a little further; going by the charts; with top 4 positions at the 1st and 2nd call.

Race 1: 4 horses go at it, the race collapses, and the winner comes from last.
8/4/2/3 --- 7/4/1/3

Race 2: 2 horse duel, winner comes from 4th position, less than 2.5 less behind; 2nd horse always < 4 lengths behind
4/7/3/1 --- 3,6,4,1

Race 4: 2 went at it early, with another joining in on the turn; winner came from 5th, about 4 lengths behind. What's interesting here is that the 2nd horse, coming from 3rd last and almost 8 lengths behind, had dead aim on the winner for a good part of the stretch and HUNG like a rat.
5/9/7/3 ---- 3/8/6/2


Race 6: The other pace horse quit but the winner was 3rd, < 2 lengths behind; so, they went 3,1 around the track
3/2/6/5 --- 3/1/6/5

Race 7: baby race --- didn't bother


Race 9: 2 pacesetters, one of which held for 3rd. winner came from 4th, 2.5 lengths behind at most. nothing really ran late here
4/5/2/9 --- 4/5/2/9

Race 11: winner comes from last, 9.5 L behind; 2nd horse from 4th, 2.5 L behind; speed holds for 3rd. Superior performance by BL.
14/4/1/11 --- 14/4/1/11


So, the only real (impressive) off the pace performance was by BL. The winner of the 1st got a perfect setup. Appears as if girlie had no excuse.

Yet still it shows the front-runner didn't win.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Let's break this down a little further; going by the charts; with top 4 positions at the 1st and 2nd call.

Race 1: 4 horses go at it, the race collapses, and the winner comes from last.
8/4/2/3 --- 7/4/1/3

Race 2: 2 horse duel, winner comes from 4th position, less than 2.5 less behind; 2nd horse always < 4 lengths behind
4/7/3/1 --- 3,6,4,1

Race 4: 2 went at it early, with another joining in on the turn; winner came from 5th, about 4 lengths behind. What's interesting here is that the 2nd horse, coming from 3rd last and almost 8 lengths behind, had dead aim on the winner for a good part of the stretch and HUNG like a rat.
5/9/7/3 ---- 3/8/6/2


Race 6: The other pace horse quit but the winner was 3rd, < 2 lengths behind; so, they went 3,1 around the track
3/2/6/5 --- 3/1/6/5

Race 7: baby race --- didn't bother


Race 9: 2 pacesetters, one of which held for 3rd. winner came from 4th, 2.5 lengths behind at most. nothing really ran late here
4/5/2/9 --- 4/5/2/9

Race 11: winner comes from last, 9.5 L behind; 2nd horse from 4th, 2.5 L behind; speed holds for 3rd. Superior performance by BL.
14/4/1/11 --- 14/4/1/11


So, the only real (impressive) off the pace performance was by BL. The winner of the 1st got a perfect setup. Appears as if girlie had no excuse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7w64...eature=related

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by philcski

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7w64...eature=related

Phil, now you've really done it.

Be prepared for the all out Fat Charts and Trakus voodoo doll combo made in your likeness. I see pins and needles in your immediate future.

Originally Posted by philcski

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7w64...eature=related

[JBJake]

Maybe RA isn't as good as people thought? A 3 horse field in the Mother Goose, slop at Monmouth and the 2 monsters Macho Again and Mine That Bird were her last 4 dominating performances. To blame Borel who had her on the lead in a 48 and 4 first half seems insane. If she went 46 and change - when she gets caught it would have also been his fault. If she was the type of horse that people have claimed she is - why does she need an absolutely perfect set up?

[knickslions2]

Originally Posted by JBJake

Maybe RA isn't as good as people thought? A 3 horse field in the Mother Goose, slop at Monmouth and the 2 monsters Macho Again and Mine That Bird were her last 4 dominating performances. To blame Borel who had her on the lead in a 48 and 4 first half seems insane. If she went 46 and change - when she gets caught it would have also been his fault. If she was the type of horse that people have claimed she is - why does she need an absolutely perfect set up?

She looked cooked after the woodward. That race took lots out of her.

[johnny pinwheel]

Originally Posted by JBJake

Maybe RA isn't as good as people thought? A 3 horse field in the Mother Goose, slop at Monmouth and the 2 monsters Macho Again and Mine That Bird were her last 4 dominating performances. To blame Borel who had her on the lead in a 48 and 4 first half seems insane. If she went 46 and change - when she gets caught it would have also been his fault. If she was the type of horse that people have claimed she is - why does she need an absolutely perfect set up?

you hit the nail on the head. her best race was the preakness, she loves the mud so the haskell was a given.(summerbird is a 10 furlong horse) she wanted no part of the travers at 10 furlongs and ran against bullsbay and macho again who proved the ability they have with yet another crummy effort yesterday. she was dressed up in almost every race but the preakness. yeah, she had a good run but these people that made her some sort of super horse have to face reality this year. it was not that hard to see this coming. shes a good horse but shes no zenyatta.

[Smooth Operator]

Originally Posted by johnny pinwheel

you hit the nail on the head. her best race was the preakness, she loves the mud so the haskell was a given.(summerbird is a 10 furlong horse) she wanted no part of the travers at 10 furlongs and ran against bullsbay and macho again who proved the ability they have with yet another crummy effort yesterday. she was dressed up in almost every race but the preakness. yeah, she had a good run but these people that made her some sort of super horse have to face reality this year. it was not that hard to see this coming. shes a good horse but shes no zenyatta.

Fine work there, johnny

You too, JBJake


Just a GD SHAME that she was SO OVER-HYPED by the media last year that it cost a truly great mare the award she deserved…

[Danzig]

i just got home a bit ago, and went to bloodhorse. read the article about the race.

be fair, who duelled with rachel through the early going, finished where? rachel gets beat a head, at the wire, when her dancing partner finishes last, and people are complaining....there's no pleasing people i guess! hell, the way i was reading the posts, it's like she got beat the length of the stretch. gimme a break.


but i do wish jess jackson, who probably couldn't tell one end of a horse from the other, or a filly from a colt, hadn't decided that she needed her racing style to be tinkered with. if it isn't broke, don't fix it! sheesh.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Danzig

be fair, who duelled with rachel through the early going, finished where? rachel gets beat a head, at the wire, when her dancing partner finishes last, and people are complaining....there's no pleasing people i guess! hell, the way i was reading the posts, it's like she got beat the length of the stretch. gimme a break.

Be Fair is nothing.

Now, I'm not saying that the 48.4 half mile was the only reason she got beat, but man, why take away your greatest asset by running such a pedestrian half mile?

And, btw, there was no duel up front. Borel clearly rode RA to not get the lead (instructions or not). And why let other horses stay in the race when you can comfortably put them away by then?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Be Fair is nothing.

Now, I'm not saying that the 48.4 half mile was the only reason she got beat, but man, why take away your greatest asset by running such a pedestrian half mile?

And, btw, there was no duel up front. Borel clearly rode RA to not get the lead (instructions or not). And why let other horses stay in the race when you can comfortably put them away by then?

ah, thanks. that's what i get for going by what was written!


but you're absolutely right-taking away her best ability makes absolutely no sense. i almost feel sorry for asmussen having to put up with that pompous owner with the bright ideas.





almost