Baffert, McAnally & Co. on Zenyatta

[CSC]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

It's the same type of complete stupidity as those who felt Rachel Alexandra would have run any faster in the Oaks or Mother Goose had Borel hit her with the whip instead of "gearing her down" the whole stretch run.

By the way, it is faulty to think both horses make up are identical. Rachel runs hard all the time, it doesn't matter if she wins by 20 or by a neck, she only knows one way to run. I think by now we would have learned that speed figs don't apply to a horse like Zenyatta, she does what is necessary to win and she did just that in the AB, well within herself.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by CSC

By the way, it is faulty to think both horses make up are identical. Rachel runs hard all the time, it doesn't matter if she wins by 20 or by a neck, she only knows one way to run. I think by now we would have learned that speed figs don't apply to a horse like Zenyatta, she does what is necessary to win and she did just that in the AB, well within herself.

Just because one has tactical speed and one is a closer doesn't mean one is running harder than the other.

[The Bid]

A speed figure holds zero merit w/ a horse like zenyatta. She's passing whatever is in front of her. If it's rachel running a 110 zenyatta runs a 111. If it's some crow running 88 she runs an 89. A horse like zenyatta it makes no difference how fast the opposition runs. What figure is established is inconsequential to her greatness.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by The Bid

A speed figure holds zero merit w/ a horse like zenyatta. She's passing whatever is in front of her. If it's rachel running a 110 zenyatta runs a 111. If it's some crow running 88 she runs an 89. A horse like zenyatta it makes no difference how fast the opposition runs. What figure is established is inconsequential to her greatness.

Let's say you replaced Anabaa's Creations with Dale Jr's stock car?

Does she still get up and win by a nose?

If so ... could she run down a stealth jet?

[prudery]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Let's say you replaced Anabaa's Creations with Dale Jr's stock car?

Does she still get up and win by a nose?

If so ... could she run down a stealth jet?

Have you run out of reason as well as Razidine ????

And you are dead wrong that horses do not " do what is necessary to win "

Native Dancer did just that, and if Arcaro was alive he would tell you that .

The horse did not respond to being put to a drive until he was ready, and was notorious for cutting his finishes either fine or exactly to his liking .

I have no comment on your handicappping skills, but your knowledge of the horse itself sucketh ...

[Honu]

What else would Baffy say , he hates synthetic surfaces and yet he still stays here and runs on them.

[Left Bank]

Originally Posted by Honu

What else would Baffy say , he hates synthetic surfaces and yet he still stays here and runs on them.

Probably because most of his owners are from SoCal and want to run there so they can be "Seen".

[Honu]

Originally Posted by Left Bank

Probably because most of his owners are from SoCal and want to run there so they can be "Seen".

I dont think most of his owners are from here , Pegram isnt and neither is Zayat or Earnhart. Either way its just funny to hear him still blah blah blah about synthetics yet he wins major stakes at all the meets out here on the surfaces he hates.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by prudery

Have you run out of reason as well as Razidine ????

And you are dead wrong that horses do not " do what is necessary to win "

Native Dancer did just that, and if Arcaro was alive he would tell you that .

The horse did not respond to being put to a drive until he was ready, and was notorious for cutting his finishes either fine or exactly to his liking .

I have no comment on your handicappping skills, but your knowledge of the horse itself sucketh ...

why, was arcaro a big fan of native dancers jock, and knows all of eric guerins stories?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Danzig

why, was arcaro a big fan of native dancers jock, and knows all of eric guerins stories?

Yep.

Arcaro rode Native Dancer all of zero times.

[Danzig]

i don't think prudery just got the jock wrong, i think it's the wrong horse. i can't recall ever reading that native dancer was a horse you had to time just right for the stretch run. now, i believe buckpasser you had to time perfectly. braulio is available to ask about that tho.

[prudery]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Yep.

Arcaro rode Native Dancer all of zero times.

Boy are you a dolt .

Arcaro rode him when Eric Guerin was suspended in the American Derby of 1953--see History of the American Thoroughbred by Robertson page 436 .
Also American Racing Manual 1954 .

Native Dancer " delayed his move until he was all straightened out in the stretch ", throwing a scare into Arcaro--who had never ridden him before, and did not know he had a mind of his own.

It is also true that Buckpasser somewhat " planned "his own races as well , but I was not speaking of him.

There is other literature that supports ND's free will attitude, but this should sufficeth .

One should know that I do not put up twaddle about horses or insurance, though I am in neither field, nor do I asttempt to" school " the experts " ..

I accept your apology in advance--now piss off and play with some numbers ..

[Revidere]

Originally Posted by prudery

Have you run out of reason as well as Razidine ????
Native Dancer did just that, and if Arcaro was alive he would tell you that .

Not sure Eddie would have the sampling since he rode Native Dancer once (American Derby) out of 22 starts.

[Smooth Operator]

I hope Shirreffs points the great, unbeaten, dual Breeders' Cup champion mare to the Foster now.

Timing seems favorable

He's got two races … er, I mean one race and a paid 9f workout in her now.

Give her a little blow for the next few weeks … then start gearing her up for that fine CD contest.


Rachel WHO

[prudery]

Originally Posted by Revidere

Not sure Eddie would have the sampling since he rode Native Dancer once (American Derby) out of 22 starts.

I am aware of how many times Arcaro rode ND and in what race as I earlier stated, but there is much printed commentary about his feelings and experience that one time on board the horse.

Heady Eddie was never one to mince words anyway, and what oft came out may have been based on one experience only --like the one time he stated that he wanted to " kill " Vincent Nodarse when he fouled him ....

Sports writers of ND's era as well expressed the belief that ND cut his finishes fine and often made " work out of beating mules " ---the implication being that the horse was somewhat of an opinionated character and possibly a drama queen as well ....

That said, it is irrefutable that Arcaro did ride the horse to a win in the American Derby at Washington Park in 1953 and that Arcaro described hinself as a " passenger " in that race, the win dictated and orchestrated solely by the horse .

Period .

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by CSC

I think by now we would have learned that speed figs don't apply to a horse like Zenyatta, she does what is necessary to win and she did just that in the AB, well within herself.

I think by now you'd be tapped out if someone gave you a 500K bankroll to bet with two years ago.

Horses don't "do what is necessary to win"

She's one unlucky nose bob from losing to Anabaa's Creations.

Almost every horse gets beat at one time or another.

Her record is a product of how good she is versus how carefully she's been managed and how good her opposition has been.

She's very good - her trainer has done a masterful job of putting her in the easiest spots and having her most cranked up for her home court Breeders Cup Races - and other than about 3 or 4 races her competition has been a total joke.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I think by now you'd be tapped out if someone gave you a 500K bankroll to bet with two years ago.

Horses don't "do what is necessary to win"

She's one unlucky nose bob from losing to Anabaa's Creations.

Almost every horse gets beat at one time or another.

Her record is a product of how good she is versus how carefully she's been managed and how good her opposition has been.

She's very good - her trainer has done a masterful job of putting her in the easiest spots and having her most cranked up for her home court Breeders Cup Races - and other than about 3 or 4 races her competition has been a total joke.

For a public handicapper, you don't display alot of flexibilty. You are locked into the numbers discussion and it doesn't allow you any room for the usage of cognative or intuitive skills when it applies to handicapping or perhaps this only applies for Zenyatta. If what you say is true, she is the luckiest, best spotted horse we have ever seen to squeak out 16 races without a loss. I know it's black and white because that is what the numbers tell you, she's just one lucky SOB to get up everytime.