Baffert, McAnally & Co. on Zenyatta

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by CSC

He (Mike Smith) never turned her loose. You could run her back next week. She earned what, $300,000, to work a mile and an eighth in 1:50? She can run in 1:48.”

This has been up for over two hours now and still no one has mocked the incredible stupidity of it.

I feel like turning my login back over to PG '85 for good.

Had Smith put her to an all-out drive she might have been able to run 1/5th of a second faster.

It's the same type of complete stupidity as those who felt Rachel Alexandra would have run any faster in the Oaks or Mother Goose had Borel hit her with the whip instead of "gearing her down" the whole stretch run.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

This has been up for over two hours now and still no one has mocked the incredible stupidity of it.

I feel like turning my login back over to PG '85 for good.

Had Smith put her to an all-out drive she might have been able to run 1/5th of a second faster.

It's the same type of complete stupidity as those who felt Rachel Alexandra would have run any faster in the Oaks or Mother Goose had Borel hit her with the whip instead of "gearing her down" the whole stretch run.

I thought you would be constructing a thread how Zardana would have beaten Zenyatta by now rather than concentrating on Baffert's comments, maybe Steve can arrange to have you and Bobby on at same time so you can ask him exactly that.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I have as much respect for Baffert's handicapping opinions as he has for my training opinions.

Here's RA's Kentucky Oaks win: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNkBuJtds58

She won it under even less urging than Zenyatta needed in the Apple Blossom.

Now ... instead of taking repeated looks back and "gearing down" RA .. lets say that Borel had hit RA with the whip 25 times through the stretch and he was riding her all-out with desperation.

Do you think that would have made her run any more than say maybe 1/5th of a second faster? Of course not.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

It's the same type of complete stupidity as those who felt Rachel Alexandra would have run any faster in the Oaks or Mother Goose had Borel hit her with the whip instead of "gearing her down" the whole stretch run.

By the way, it is faulty to think both horses make up are identical. Rachel runs hard all the time, it doesn't matter if she wins by 20 or by a neck, she only knows one way to run. I think by now we would have learned that speed figs don't apply to a horse like Zenyatta, she does what is necessary to win and she did just that in the AB, well within herself.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by CSC

By the way, it is faulty to think both horses make up are identical. Rachel runs hard all the time, it doesn't matter if she wins by 20 or by a neck, she only knows one way to run. I think by now we would have learned that speed figs don't apply to a horse like Zenyatta, she does what is necessary to win and she did just that in the AB, well within herself.

Just because one has tactical speed and one is a closer doesn't mean one is running harder than the other.

[The Bid]

A speed figure holds zero merit w/ a horse like zenyatta. She's passing whatever is in front of her. If it's rachel running a 110 zenyatta runs a 111. If it's some crow running 88 she runs an 89. A horse like zenyatta it makes no difference how fast the opposition runs. What figure is established is inconsequential to her greatness.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by The Bid

A speed figure holds zero merit w/ a horse like zenyatta. She's passing whatever is in front of her. If it's rachel running a 110 zenyatta runs a 111. If it's some crow running 88 she runs an 89. A horse like zenyatta it makes no difference how fast the opposition runs. What figure is established is inconsequential to her greatness.

Let's say you replaced Anabaa's Creations with Dale Jr's stock car?

Does she still get up and win by a nose?

If so ... could she run down a stealth jet?

[prudery]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Let's say you replaced Anabaa's Creations with Dale Jr's stock car?

Does she still get up and win by a nose?

If so ... could she run down a stealth jet?

Have you run out of reason as well as Razidine ????

And you are dead wrong that horses do not " do what is necessary to win "

Native Dancer did just that, and if Arcaro was alive he would tell you that .

The horse did not respond to being put to a drive until he was ready, and was notorious for cutting his finishes either fine or exactly to his liking .

I have no comment on your handicappping skills, but your knowledge of the horse itself sucketh ...

[Honu]

What else would Baffy say , he hates synthetic surfaces and yet he still stays here and runs on them.

[Left Bank]

Originally Posted by Honu

What else would Baffy say , he hates synthetic surfaces and yet he still stays here and runs on them.

Probably because most of his owners are from SoCal and want to run there so they can be "Seen".

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by prudery

Have you run out of reason as well as Razidine ????

And you are dead wrong that horses do not " do what is necessary to win "

Native Dancer did just that, and if Arcaro was alive he would tell you that .

The horse did not respond to being put to a drive until he was ready, and was notorious for cutting his finishes either fine or exactly to his liking .

I have no comment on your handicappping skills, but your knowledge of the horse itself sucketh ...

why, was arcaro a big fan of native dancers jock, and knows all of eric guerins stories?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Danzig

why, was arcaro a big fan of native dancers jock, and knows all of eric guerins stories?

Yep.

Arcaro rode Native Dancer all of zero times.

[Revidere]

Originally Posted by prudery

Have you run out of reason as well as Razidine ????
Native Dancer did just that, and if Arcaro was alive he would tell you that .

Not sure Eddie would have the sampling since he rode Native Dancer once (American Derby) out of 22 starts.

[Smooth Operator]

I hope Shirreffs points the great, unbeaten, dual Breeders' Cup champion mare to the Foster now.

Timing seems favorable

He's got two races … er, I mean one race and a paid 9f workout in her now.

Give her a little blow for the next few weeks … then start gearing her up for that fine CD contest.


Rachel WHO

[prudery]

Originally Posted by Revidere

Not sure Eddie would have the sampling since he rode Native Dancer once (American Derby) out of 22 starts.

I am aware of how many times Arcaro rode ND and in what race as I earlier stated, but there is much printed commentary about his feelings and experience that one time on board the horse.

Heady Eddie was never one to mince words anyway, and what oft came out may have been based on one experience only --like the one time he stated that he wanted to " kill " Vincent Nodarse when he fouled him ....

Sports writers of ND's era as well expressed the belief that ND cut his finishes fine and often made " work out of beating mules " ---the implication being that the horse was somewhat of an opinionated character and possibly a drama queen as well ....

That said, it is irrefutable that Arcaro did ride the horse to a win in the American Derby at Washington Park in 1953 and that Arcaro described hinself as a " passenger " in that race, the win dictated and orchestrated solely by the horse .

Period .

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by CSC

I think by now we would have learned that speed figs don't apply to a horse like Zenyatta, she does what is necessary to win and she did just that in the AB, well within herself.

I think by now you'd be tapped out if someone gave you a 500K bankroll to bet with two years ago.

Horses don't "do what is necessary to win"

She's one unlucky nose bob from losing to Anabaa's Creations.

Almost every horse gets beat at one time or another.

Her record is a product of how good she is versus how carefully she's been managed and how good her opposition has been.

She's very good - her trainer has done a masterful job of putting her in the easiest spots and having her most cranked up for her home court Breeders Cup Races - and other than about 3 or 4 races her competition has been a total joke.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I think by now you'd be tapped out if someone gave you a 500K bankroll to bet with two years ago.

Horses don't "do what is necessary to win"

She's one unlucky nose bob from losing to Anabaa's Creations.

Almost every horse gets beat at one time or another.

Her record is a product of how good she is versus how carefully she's been managed and how good her opposition has been.

She's very good - her trainer has done a masterful job of putting her in the easiest spots and having her most cranked up for her home court Breeders Cup Races - and other than about 3 or 4 races her competition has been a total joke.

For a public handicapper, you don't display alot of flexibilty. You are locked into the numbers discussion and it doesn't allow you any room for the usage of cognative or intuitive skills when it applies to handicapping or perhaps this only applies for Zenyatta. If what you say is true, she is the luckiest, best spotted horse we have ever seen to squeak out 16 races without a loss. I know it's black and white because that is what the numbers tell you, she's just one lucky SOB to get up everytime.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

This has been up for over two hours now and still no one has mocked the incredible stupidity of it.

I feel like turning my login back over to PG '85 for good.

Had Smith put her to an all-out drive she might have been able to run 1/5th of a second faster.

It's the same type of complete stupidity as those who felt Rachel Alexandra would have run any faster in the Oaks or Mother Goose had Borel hit her with the whip instead of "gearing her down" the whole stretch run.

Never being asked and being whipped after being in a drive from the turn are not exactly the same thing. You, and the others that support this view, really need to STOP misinforming the public. Too many people pay attention to what you write and you're just wrong here. The way horses are ridden affects how fast they run. Think about this next time your jock is unable to put your horse in a drive.