would quality road have beat zen in the b.c.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

On any real sort of track, he's a bit 10f-limited. She is a 10f horse.

How is he 10f limited?

because of how he ran in the Travers after being illogically rushed into making the race off of feet trouble and with only a single 6.5f prep a few weeks earlier. Breaking poorly at the start costing himself position hurt his chances as well and made the likelyhood of a non-effort that much greater.

He was a fairly competitive 3rd in that race despite all kinds of reasons to not fire.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

How is he 10f limited?

because of how he ran in the Travers after being illogically rushed into making the race off of feet trouble and with only a single 6.5f prep a few weeks earlier. Breaking poorly at the start costing himself position hurt his chances as well and made the likelyhood of a non-effort that much greater.

He was a fairly competitive 3rd in that race despite all kinds of reasons to not fire.

O.K., really, I don't know how in the hell this is happening, but it's the same situation as with St. Trinians, and Sidney's Candy. We'll pass on the race you say was troubled. Go to the following race (J.C. G CUP.) The horse is enjoying the track. The track may have bothered some that day, but not the top 2. He's playing on the front of a 24.96, 49.73, 113.12 pace. If he is a 10f horse, then there is no reason why he shouldn't outfinish all comers in there. Look at the head-on version of the race. He looks nice on the far turn. So, if it was 9f, I think he holds off the winner in that. It's the final eighth that gets him. Look at his left front. That twirling lasso crap doesn't help. Do you really think this horse can hold a horse like Zenyatta off going 10f when he's tired, n' twirling a lasso? Better be at Gulfstream, or Monmouth. It's probably not gunna happen at Belmont, Churchill, Anita etc. He would need to catch a particularly fast track. No doubt, he is terrific at Gulfstream. Anywhere else, I really think he's much better off going 9f or less. BTW, I thought this twirler (C. Reality) was gunna win the Breeders Cup Classic. He could EASILY beat Alysheba on what looks like a fast HWD STRIP. Wasn't quite the same when the footing changed. Look at him twirl in the stretch at Churchill. On one surface (fast dirt,) he's was awesome, but not when the surface changed. So, if you get that super fast dirt track, yea, Quality Road can win a big race going 10f.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-42Fzs7FKA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oksnqhosh8

[The Indomitable DrugS]

While it's true that he's no Yankee Bravo ... I think you fail to realize that the Jockey Club Gold Cup was just Quality Road's 3rd start in over 6 months time.

There was nothing wrong with QR's performance either - the track was wet and slow - Fabulous Strike was nailed late by Kodiak Kowboy in the Vosburgh and a race featuring the two best sprinters in the world went in a very slow raw time of 1:10.08

They start on something of a dog leg turn at Belmont at 10fs - and the pace was hardly as slow as you think given the condition of the track. Getting beat one length by a Belmont and Travers winner - and running a 110 Beyer is no great disgrace.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I think you fail to realize that the Jockey Club Gold Cup was just Quality Road's 3rd start in over 6 months time.

There was nothing wrong with QR's performance either - the track was wet and slow - Fabulous Strike was nailed late by Kodiak Kowboy in the Vosburgh and a race featuring the two best sprinters in the world went in a very slow raw time of 1:10.08

They start on something of a dog leg turn at Belmont at 10fs - and the pace was hardly as slow as you think given the condition of the track. Getting beat one length by a Belmont and Travers winner - and running a 110 Beyer is no great disgrace.

I didn't say there's anything wrong with any of his performances. He's just not a natural 10f horse. When they leave Gulfstream, you'll see he will struggle to hold going 10f against the top natural 10f horses. He might get home in some weak 10f stakes. They'll think they have a 10f horse, but they don't. They should point to the B.C. Sprint, or MILE. That's probably not what they want. So, he'll fade in the last 8th of a mile in the Classic (twirling away.. ala Cutless Reality 22 years earlier.)

[Revidere]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Getting beat one length by a Belmont and Travers winner - and running a 110 Beyer is no great disgrace.

Didn't she beat same Belmont, Travers, JCGC winner by 3 lengths?

Don't give me the surface. He ran his race. She was just better.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Revidere

Didn't she beat same Belmont, Travers, JCGC winner by 3 lengths?

Don't give me the surface. He ran his race. She was just better.

A horse like Summer Bird who does not really have a strong turn of foot is at a huge disadvantage on the Pro-Ride. He's at his best when he can gallop horses into the ground, he's a grinder. The Pro-Ride works against him in a huge way as it is a surface where horses who can wind up and make one powerful run are at their best.

Count me among those who wouldn't be surprised by a different result if a healthy Summer Bird and Zenyatta met at 10fs on a dirt track.

NT

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Revidere

Didn't she beat same Belmont, Travers, JCGC winner by 3 lengths?

Don't give me the surface. He ran his race. She was just better.

don't give you the surface? you can't ignore it or pretend it's equal to dirt, or that some horses don't like it better than others.

[Revidere]

Originally Posted by Danzig

don't give you the surface? you can't ignore it or pretend it's equal to dirt, or that some horses don't like it better than others.

I'm not pretending or ignoring. In what way did he display a dislike for the surface? He ran real well.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Revidere

I'm not pretending or ignoring. In what way did he display a dislike for the surface? He ran real well.

not saying he disliked it. but zenyatta obviously loves it. and there's no telling how they'd do on dirt. maybe she'd still beat him, maybe she wouldn't. i don't think just by them facing off on synthetic that you can say with surety what would occur.

[Thunder Gulch]

I don't think QR was ready to run his best race that day, and I don't know if he would have handled the surface. Any dirt track in America, yes.

[The Bid]

Then I need a moderate one to make me 3.5 million. Anytime you beat a horse by 8 in hand thats won 6 G1 you are at the top of your business. Quality Road hasn't beaten anything at all. He ran off the screen against a bunch of zeros. He lost to Summer Bird twice, do you think Zenyatta would beat him? I think she would drill his ass, in fact she did. He finished behind superstars like Hold me Back, Theregoesjojo.

Zenyatta has finished behind none, and until she finishes behind one, shes where its at. Regardless of her figures, her surface, whatever argument anybody has...The fact is shes never been beaten. The only thing going thats goign to beat her right now is Mike Smith. He has tried his best on multiple occasions.

I guess we can make an argument that Summer Bird lost to Rachel by 6. Summerbird beat QR by 1 and 3.5. Zenyatta beat Summerbird 5 and he was up and down like a 15 dollar BJ. That would put R and Z in the same catagory, although I would argue Zenyatta is better than Rachel, or was last year. QR is not even in the same zipcode. I think thats accurate of the 3 horses we have mentioned. We have two filly/mares for the ages, and one pretty good older horse running against zeros.

Sure QR has a right to get better, and he would need to run that huge race back against either of the aforementioned to be in the ballgame

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Then I need a moderate one to make me 3.5 million. Anytime you beat a horse by 8 in hand thats won 6 G1 you are at the top of your business. Quality Road hasn't beaten anything at all. He ran off the screen against a bunch of zeros. He lost to Summer Bird twice, do you think Zenyatta would beat him? I think she would drill his ass. He finished behind superstars like Hold me Back, Theregoesjojo.

Zenyatta has finished behind none, and until she finishes behind one, shes where its at. Regardless of her figures, her surface, whatever argument anybody has...The fact is shes never been beaten. The only thing going thats goign to beat her right now is Mike Smith. He has tried his best on multiple occasions.

I guess we can make an argument that Summer Bird lost to Rachel by 6. Summerbird beat QR by 1 and 3.5. Zenyatta beat Summerbird 5 and he was up and down like a 15 dollar BJ. That would put R and Z in the same catagory, although I would argue Zenyatta is better than Rachel, or was last year. QR is not even in the same zipcode. I think thats accurate of the 3 horses we have mentioned. We have two filly/mares for the ages, and one pretty good older horse running against zeros.

You're saying so much that runs dead contrary to sound handicapping it isn't even funny.

If Rachel Alexandra returns from the long layoff in similar fashion to how you've returned from your posting layoff ... she will not only get crushed in the Apple Blossom .. but the bridgejumpers will lose a fortune in that manufactured prep race she is supposed to have at FG in March.

[The Bid]

I needed one

Im real sound handicapping. Those performance lines don't lie drugs. Thats just what hes beat, and what shes beat. Shes beaten everything, hes gotten beat by Summerbird twice, convincingly twice. How can she not get the nod over that one at the very least. He ran off the screen against zeros. What part of that is untrue?

[VOL JACK]

The first time summer Bird beat QR...QR had one 6.5f prep.
The second time was a very fair contest except for they were meeting on a sloppy track once again.
I dont think a horse could be better bred or have a better style for the slop than summer bird...which makes RA Haskell all the more impressive.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Zenyatta has finished behind none, and until she finishes behind one, shes where its at. Regardless of her figures, her surface, whatever argument anybody has...The fact is shes never been beaten. The only thing going thats goign to beat her right now is Mike Smith.

So, with that sound line of reasoning...

Peppers Pride would have beaten both Zenyatta and RA?

[The Bid]

If she won against open company on a major, against the best horses in the world, on multiple occasions....YES. Since she just ran against NM breds, you tell me

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by The Bid

If she won against open company on a major, against the best horses in the world, on multiple occasions....YES. Since she just ran against NM breds, you tell me

Oh.

So now that that particular argument is useful for your position, it's ok.

Got it.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Zenyatta has finished behind none, and until she finishes behind one, shes where its at. Regardless of her figures, her surface, whatever argument anybody has...

They had the same type of arguments before the B.C. win. They said she simply didn't have the figures. I'll admit, I did not know if she could beat those, but she did. This has now become simple hatred for the horse. She's got the class, and she's handled dirt. I don't think they will beat her going 10f on dirt. That's plays into her strength(10f.) Going 81/2f-9f on a super fast dirt track? Maybe. She's handled Oaklawn, and I do think there's something about Churchill that suits the trainer's methods. Their arguments against her are best suited for the 2 fake speed tracks (G Stream, and Mmth.) They will keep on changing their demands. If she wins at OAK or Churchill, they'll say the track was too slow etc. They don't like her. No ass kicking' is going to change that. Look, this QR loved GS last year. He wasn't as good at the other tracks. On a course that's at all tiring, he starts twirling his left front. Even in the winning sprint effort at TOGA, he's twirling late as Candy Ass Honey Bee is sucking' up 2nd. He would need to be running on Sheetrock to beat her at 10f. Twirling is like an unbalanced washing Machine. The faster the surface, the less that machine is gunna start vibrating.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

They had the same type of arguments before the B.C. win. They said she simply didn't have the figures. I'll admit, I did not know if she could beat those, but she did. This has now become simple hatred for the horse.

I believe I called Zenyatta a very dangerous horse in the Breeders Cup Classic if Life Is Sweet were to run well in the Distaff the day before.

I also know Zenyatta was the decisive horse that springboarded me to a tournament win worth four figures. She owes me nothing at all to say the least.

This has become hatred for sound competent handicapping. Nothing more and nothing less. Anyone who thinks she would beat Quality Road on dirt is either a fool or is trolling like the guy who stole Bid's login.

[Indian Charlie]

SCUDS talking hatred.

That's fugging precious.