Will this be the biggest trainer move down in history?

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Wow. Who'd have thunk it that DrugS is the only person on here hopelessly deluded. That's right, Wolfson doesn't juice! Silly me.

Why should your flippant approach to the topic not get a similar treatment? And if her performance(s) are so obviously aided, why the purchase interest from "straight arrows" like the Jacksons and Tagg?

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Why should your flippant approach to the topic not get a similar treatment? And if her performance(s) are so obviously aided, why the purchase interest from "straight arrows" like the Jacksons and Tagg?

I suppose they are possibly gullible, like you??

Just my best guess though.

Let me ask you, and everyone else that won't believe their own eyes.

How is it that these miracle trainers (such as Wolfson) can move horses way up, beyond any realistic expectations that is, using just improved training methods, but after a meteoric rise, they almost always flame out just as spectacularly.

I can't wait to understand this one thing.

[Kasept]

Yeah. I imagine 70yo Tagg to be quite a rube. I'm well aware what edges guys are taking. I just find it grossly unfair that some are accused with such ferocious zeal and glee while others seem to escape such attacks for whatever reason.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Yeah. I imagine 70yo Tagg to be quite a rube. I'm well aware what edges guys are taking. I just find it grossly unfair that some are accused with such ferocious zeal and glee while others seem to escape such attacks for whatever reason.

Age means nothing. The guy doesn't strike me as being particularly of sound mind anyways.

Do you feel I accuse with ferocious zeal and glee? I've always thought I kinda suffer from a serious case of apathy most of the time.

As for letting others escape for whatever reason, I pretty much call it as I see it. I've openly ripped on many trainers here and have predicted downturns in certain trainers performances.

Probably the main reason I said anything in the first place about Frolic's Dream is because she's a fun horse to watch. That and I have her in my TVG contest and now won't get points with her.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Yeah. I imagine 70yo Tagg to be quite a rube. I'm well aware what edges guys are taking. I just find it grossly unfair that some are accused with such ferocious zeal and glee while others seem to escape such attacks for whatever reason.

Glee? I think "glee" might be the appropriate way to describe it for a minority, but the correct characterization is "anger." This is not as funny as some seem to think. Sometimes I hear all the complaining about the state of the industry, and need(atleast temporarily) for slot money to sweeten purses. I'll tell you exactly why this industry is struggling. It's because people ignore the complaints of the customers that don't want to cap trainers. We want to cap horses. When the industry stops denying this problem, you'll see the value of the product come back. Look, you've got a trainer claiming a horse(off a trainer that won four Breeders Cup Races on one day in 2003) for $62,500. The new trainer easily wins a $100k stakes race right off the claim. By the way, this 60k goes right into his pocket, because the new trainer owns the horse. The old trainer never won a stakes with the horse. He's won a ton of stakes, but couldn't win one with this horse. This is the problem with your industry. Right here. You want people to bet, and get new friends to bet etc. Guess what? Ain't gunna happen. There aren't that many people willing to put up with this crap. Slot money isn't the answer. The answer is to give people something a lot more clean to bet on. As long as people refuse to do that, this industry will struggle(as it should.) Yea, you're surprised you have to sell the product, but you have to. That's because people don't particularly have a fondness for a product they see as unfair. You can tell people it's fair, but that's just not what they see in front of them. Pretty much this is it. This is pretty much the limit to the amount of people willing to tolerate this garbage going on.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Yeah. I imagine 70yo Tagg to be quite a rube. I'm well aware what edges guys are taking. I just find it grossly unfair that some are accused with such ferocious zeal and glee while others seem to escape such attacks for whatever reason.

Yes, it's also unfair that Alex Rodriguez's name was leaked from the list of 104 MLB players who apparently tested positive for PEDs. But that doesn't make his conduct any less suspect.

The fact that some trainers' performance is subject to scrutiny while others "just as guilty" escape such similar scrutiny may be unfair. But, like the baseball players, that does not make the performance of the scrutizined trainers any less suspect. We can only hope that all of the "guilty" parties will eventually get the scrutiny they deserve.

I don't think anyone bandies about these names with "glee." I agree wholeheartedly with a prior poster that most people engaged in this discussion are angry and frustrated with what they observe. Let's remember that the sport is "horse racing." Unfortunately, handicapping the sport we love has become less and less about the horse and more about the trainer. If you or anyone else knows personally who takes what edges, that may be good for you individually as a handicapper or bettor, but overall in the long run, it is very bad for the game.

[smuthg]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Why should your flippant approach to the topic not get a similar treatment? And if her performance(s) are so obviously aided, why the purchase interest from "straight arrows" like the Jacksons and Tagg?

agreed... seems to me that Mr. Tagg has a fairly decent eye for talent.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by smuthg

agreed... seems to me that Mr. Tagg has a fairly decent eye for talent.

Do you both actually think Tagg put this deal together??

Laughable

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Do you both actually think Tagg put this deal together?? Laughable

Where did anyone say that Tagg 'put the deal together'? Save the clever internet debate tactics for somewhere else. The better question is do you believe the Jacksons bought this horse without any input from the trainer to whom they are giving her?

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Where did anyone say that Tagg 'put the deal together'? Save the clever internet debate tactics for somewhere else. The better question is do you believe the Jacksons bought this horse without any input from the trainer to whom they are giving her?

Implying that Tagg played a large part in this deal and then pulling the old innocent act of "Where did anyone say that Tagg 'put the deal together'?" bit wreaks far more of clever Internet debate tactics than anything I said on here.

This is implied when you say "why the purchase interest from "straight arrows" like the Jacksons and Tagg?" in post 16.

"Yeah. I imagine 70yo Tagg to be quite a rube." Again, from you, in post 18.

And the one from Smuthg in post 26, quoting you from post 16. "agreed... seems to me that Mr. Tagg has a fairly decent eye for talent."

If these posts aren't saying that Tagg played a large part in this deal, then fine, that's my mistake, but I just don't read them that way at all.

To answer your question (the better one that is), I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that Tagg had minimal input on this.

Just out of curiosity, how many horses has Tagg trained for them? I don't need an exact number, it's just that I can't recall any and am wondering if this is a new partnership.

[ateamstupid]

Tagg trained Showing Up for the Jacksons.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Tagg trained Showing Up for the Jacksons.

Yeah, that's right, I forgot about him.

Any others of note?