Should Songbird retire?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Yeah, the surface is a huge concern. Especially since Songbird has been so finicky about what tracks she likes in the past.

Well we heard about the deep tiring track at Delaware so at least we have that excuse already warmed up in the bullpen. That plucky 92 BSF life or death to fend off a 50 claimer while galloping alone on the lead was just the a tear jerker who knew the good lord created such magnificence, we are blessed. I turned to the wife and said "remember Rachel's Haskell forget that Kaka this filly Songbird just re invented greatness.." Tito pass me a tissue

How about trying the boys I guess that's a non starter now huh? Even with her not having to commute to work? Good news with the advent of her new preferred way of going(rating) AND not having to travel she is likely to sprout wings..I don't know I am starting to think the Classic is the likely target why screw with Stellar Wind and we know she would have won last week if that cheat jockey didnt surprise her at the last minute or was it the crooked camera? Who knows maybe it was both?

Let's stop the madness for a minute and realize we both can name 10 fillies that she couldnt get with 5 lengths of on her best day. Does that make her rat NO it makes her absurd rep unwarranted.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Let's stop the madness for a minute and realize we both can name 10 fillies that she couldnt get with 5 lengths of on her best day. Does that make her rat know it makes her absurd rep unwarranted.

Utter filth. Never mind historical fillies--we all know she's not as fast. But name me some contemporary females that Songbird could have faced that were consistently running faster than her at the same point in their careers.

Beholder? Nope.
Stellar Wind? No.
Untapable? Wrong.
I'm A Chatterbox? Please.
Wedding Toast? Nah.
Curlina? Try again.
Forever Unbridled? SMH.
Stopcharginmaria? Really?
Sheer Drama? Scraping the bottom here.
Got Lucky? Not quite.
Warren's Veneda? Fail.
Elate? Forget about it.
Abel Tasman? Are you serious?

The only filly I could find was Cavorting, who registered 3 straight triple digit Beyers (top of 102) last year. Of course, she "bone bruised" her way into retirement after that display, conveniently opting out of both the Beldame and the BC Distaff--you know, championship events.

And as far as absurdity goes, it doesn't get any more absurd then foregoing a post-race interview of the winner of the Personal Ensign (Joel Rosario on Forever Unbridled) to ask Mike Smith if Songbird should be retired for losing the race in a photo.

The reality is Songbird can easily win this year's BC Distaff, because as slow as she is, so is everyone else--just like last year.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Utter filth. Never mind historical fillies--we all know she's not as fast. But name me some contemporary females that Songbird could have faced that were consistently running faster than her at the same point in their careers.

Beholder? Nope.
Stellar Wind? No.
Untapable? Wrong.
I'm A Chatterbox? Please.
Wedding Toast? Nah.
Curlina? Try again.
Forever Unbridled? SMH.
Stopcharginmaria? Really?
Sheer Drama? Scraping the bottom here.
Got Lucky? Not quite.
Warren's Veneda? Fail.
Elate? Forget about it.
Abel Tasman? Are you serious?

The only filly I could find was Cavorting, who registered 3 straight triple digit Beyers (top of 102) last year. Of course, she "bone bruised" her way into retirement after that display, conveniently opting out of both the Beldame and the BC Distaff--you know, championship events.

And as far as absurdity goes, it doesn't get any more absurd then foregoing a post-race interview of the winner of the Personal Ensign (Joel Rosario on Forever Unbridled) to ask Mike Smith if Songbird should be retired for losing the race in a photo.

The reality is Songbird can easily win this year's BC Distaff, because as slow as she is, so is everyone else--just like last year.

Why never mind historical fillies because you are sane? That is what folks perhaps not you deemed her to be, she isnt. BTW Curlina's best was darn good infrequent but she was fast.

It was a dopey question but speaks to the insane rep she has garnered as the best EVAH. People dont know the difference between Land over Sea and Lite Light. People called her Go for Wand, Ruffian, Personal Ensign, Inside Information, Rachel, Zenyatta etc. she barely is in Ashado's league.

Several of the fillies you list would absolutely beat her half the time and that's the issue, she is as fast those and compared with the true greatest

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by freddymo

WPeople called her Go for Wand, Ruffian, Personal Ensign, Inside Information, Rachel, Zenyatta etc. she barely is in Ashado's league.

Several of the fillies you list would absolutely beat her half the time and that's the issue, she is as fast those and compared with the true greatest

Inside Information wasn't fast at 2 or 3, not particularly adept at getting two turns, and apparently not particularly sound since her 3yo season ended halfway through, so a case could be made that Songbird would have trounced her at 3.

Personal Ensign ran all of 4 times as a 3yo coming off a severe leg fracture, with only 2 starts in stakes races and only one Grade 1 (the Beldame) getting 10f in 2:04+.

Zenyatta never ran at 2 or 3 and rarely started on a dirt track.

So there's inflation on both sides of the argument. Perhaps its moot now that Songbird has run 3 relatively slow races at 4, but she theoretically still has two cracks at it.

If she throws up a 110+ or two the way Stellar Wind and Beholder did late in their careers what judgment will pass from your lips, O Wise One?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Inside Information wasn't fast at 2 or 3, not particularly adept at getting two turns, and apparently not particularly sound since her 3yo season ended halfway through, so a case could be made that Songbird would have trounced her at 3.

Personal Ensign ran all of 4 times as a 3yo coming off a severe leg fracture, with only 2 starts in stakes races and only one Grade 1 (the Beldame) getting 10f in 2:04+.

Zenyatta never ran at 2 or 3 and rarely started on a dirt track.

So there's inflation on both sides of the argument. Perhaps its moot now that Songbird has run 3 relatively slow races at 4, but she theoretically still has two cracks at it.

If she throws up a 110+ or two the way Stellar Wind and Beholder did late in their careers what judgment will pass from your lips, O Wise One?

No its moot because the ole Bone Bruising has forced her to retirement

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by freddymo

No its moot because the ole Bone Bruising has forced her to retirement

Like I posted yesterday, owner Rick Porter was the biggest hurdle Songbird would have to jump to validate her career.

I blame Maggie Wolfendale's post-race interview. Oh well.

[TouchOfGrey]

Statement from Rick Porter:

There is an ancient proverb that says all good things must come to an end. Today, Fox Hill Farm announces that something that was very good for us, and very good for racing, has come to an end -- the racing career of Songbird.

Over the Winter, Songbird had bone bruising and a specific area was very slow to heal. She was finally cleared to return, but the three races from Songbird this year weren't what we expected from the bigger, stronger, and smarter Songbird. There were so many variables with her long layoff, shipping, tiring tracks, going 1 1/4 miles, and more, we were never sure which of the variables may explain what wasn't quite Songbird.

After this past race, we thought something seemed off in her hind end, so we sent her to Rood & Riddle for an evaluation. Her lameness was readily apparent to Dr. Bramlage, and ultrasounds proved both hind suspensories were enlarged. Since suspensories are usually the result of something else amiss and he knew of her history, Dr. Bramlage shot a set of x-rays of the area of bone Songbird had issues with over the Winter. A distinct line on the bone was present. We followed up with a bone scan, and then an MRI.

Unfortunately, the results weren't what we wanted to see. We have a situation where it'd be dangerous for Songbird to continue training, and Dr. Bramlage isn't optimistic that the site will fully resolve even if given ample time.

So for this reason, we are retiring our lovely Songbird. She was an absolute joy to race, and we expect that she'll be as wonderful a broodmare as she was a racehorse. She took us on an incredible and unforgettable journey. While we're sad that we must retire her, we absolutely cannot risk having another Eight Belles kind of devastation and are ultimately happy that she is retiring in good health. May she soar to new heights in her future journey.

We'd like to publicly thank the incomparable Dr. Larry Bramlage, Dr. Katie Garrett, and the rest of the staff at Rood & Riddle. -- RICK PORTER

Photos of her Vet report at Fox Hill Farm's Facebook page. LINK

[Alabama Stakes]

Originally Posted by freddymo

No its moot because the ole Bone Bruising has forced her to retirement

You even sound like an ******* the way you post the news. Are you gonna kick a puppy or 2 on your walk back to the nursing home ?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

You even sound like an ******* the way you post the news. Are you gonna kick a puppy or 2 on your walk back to the nursing home ?

Nah love pups especially my new Tibetan Terrier Jax. I am not a vet I have no clue if she was really hurt. I dont know Dr. Bramlage I have no reason not to believe his diagnosis. That said I do wonder if her HoF trainer who was dissed by SB's owner after her defeat would have shuttled her to hospital just "because" like her owner has. She had a fine career among the very best I look forward to seeing her offspring race, I think she will be an outstanding producer.

I wonder how many graded horses can be diagnosed with "Bone Bruising" if you invest the money to investigate such. Seems to me, that running 40+ mph would cause some damage but I really dont know.

I tell you what Forever Unbridled is a complete laimo that runs by appt and I am sure we can find reasons to retire her at any moment. She must be some kind of science experiment to get fit to run

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

You even sound like an ******* the way you post the news. Are you gonna kick a puppy or 2 on your walk back to the nursing home ?

Nah love pups especially my new Tibetan Terrier Jax. I am not a vet I have no clue if she was really hurt. I dont know Dr. Bramlage I have no reason not to believe his diagnosis. That said I do wonder if her HoF trainer who was dissed by SB's owner after her defeat would have shuttled her to hospital just "because" like her owner has. She had a fine career among the very best I look forward to seeing her offspring race, I think she will be an outstanding producer.

I wonder how many graded horses can be diagnosed with "Bone Bruising" if you invest the money to investigate such. Seems to me, that running 40+ mph would cause some damage but I really dont know.

I tell you what Forever Unbridled is a complete laimo that runs by appt and I am sure we can find reasons to retire her at any moment. She must be some kind of science experiment to get fit to run