Clearly there was no intention to come over?

[Kitan]

I don't think it has anything to do with hiding behind the internet. We, let alone the stewards, have every right to question Garcia why he "failed to ride his horse to the finish" properly. Same goes for Irad and his careless/reckless riding; it is definitely not "laughably apparent" the horse spooked. Even if it seems more likely that the horse spooked than not, don't gloss over the fact that Irad is notorious for this type of riding in the first place.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Cute. Your insinuations were that Irad was willing to take Davis down just to get over to the rail (completely dismissing out of hand the horse freaking out, which is laughably apparent from the head-on) and that Garcia was more than just overconfident and may have "pulled the horse in some kind of scheme." Real brave to insinuate those things, then back off and pretend you're just playing devil's advocate. Again, embarrassing, and something that only the anonymity of the internet would allow.

its pointless discussing with you, the pretty pony forum is missing you.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

its pointless discussing with you, the pretty pony forum is missing you.

And the OTB full of miserable derelicts blaming jockeys for every one of their losing bets is missing you.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Kitan

I don't think it has anything to do with hiding behind the internet. We, let alone the stewards, have every right to question Garcia why he "failed to ride his horse to the finish" properly. Same goes for Irad and his careless/reckless riding; it is definitely not "laughably apparent" the horse spooked. Even if it seems more likely that the horse spooked than not, don't gloss over the fact that Irad is notorious for this type of riding in the first place.

Questioning rides is perfectly fine, and I do it plenty. But to definitively project these sinister motivations onto jockeys when there are more plausible explanations is just lame and irresponsible.

[Kitan]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Questioning rides is perfectly fine, and I do it plenty. But to definitively project these sinister motivations onto jockeys when there are more plausible explanations is just lame and irresponsible.

So you don't think there's an issue with the fact that something like this happens and most immediately cry foul towards Irad's tactics because one can easily imagine him doing that? I think that is the main point. Say it is clear cut that the horse spooked. The fact that a lot of individuals immediately assume Irad did it on purpose shows there is a problem with his riding style that sooner or later may unfortunately be devastating.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Kitan

So you don't think there's an issue with the fact that something like this happens and most immediately cry foul towards Irad's tactics because one can easily imagine him doing that? I think that is the main point. Say it is clear cut that the horse spooked. The fact that a lot of individuals immediately assume Irad did it on purpose shows there is a problem with his riding style that sooner or later may unfortunately be devastating.

A lot of individuals? I counted two faceless people on a message board. Can you point to someone who put their name on suggesting Irad tried to saw off Davis on purpose?

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

A lot of individuals? I counted two faceless people on a message board. Can you point to someone who put their name on suggesting Irad tried to saw off Davis on purpose?

he tried to go the rail on purpose, stop making this like it was some kind of assassination attempt.

there were many, but there is no reason to pull other peoples opinions into this simple discussion.

the most aggressive I will say was some guy named Kurt Hoover, doubt you ever heard of him.

[Kitan]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

A lot of individuals? I counted two faceless people on a message board. Can you point to someone who put their name on suggesting Irad tried to saw off Davis on purpose?

Richard Migliore. He must be a person who has "probably never been on a horse in their lives", as you suggested.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Kitan

Richard Migliore. He must be a person who has "probably never been on a horse in their lives", as you suggested.

I think he has the wrong interpretation, but yeah, at least he put his name on it and is someone with experience to speak from.

I wonder if he thinks Garcia stiffed Nero like all the internet detectives too.

[Kitan]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I think he has the wrong interpretation, but yeah, at least he put his name on it and is someone with experience to speak from.

I wonder if he thinks Garcia stiffed Nero like all the internet detectives too.

So who has the right interpretation? Not faceless people or experienced people, so it must only be those that agree with you?

I haven't read any one on this thread say he was stiffed. I haven't said that, 10 pnt hasn't and neither Seattle. Rather, we are all questioning why Garcia rode in the manner that he did, regardless of whether it was deliberate or sheer overconfidence. I'll say it again, we have every right to question that ride just as it should be questioned by the stewards. To be not even touch an odds-on horse until it was too late is an egregious error and I can guarantee that in any other jurisdiction the 7 day ban that 10 pnt is suggesting would be incredibly LIGHT. Let me remind you that Douglas Whyte, a jockey who is 100x more accomplished than Garcia received a 1 month ban for stopping to ride TWO STRIDES too short of the wire.

[pointman]

Watching the replay, I can't see how someone would think that Irad did that purposely. Did he try to get his horse from the 10 post over to the rail somewhere midpack to try to save ground? Yes. Do many riders try to do that? Yes, and more probably should.

I just don't see him trying to steer the horse into Davis's horse, seems to me that Irad's horse was lugging in and he was trying to get the horse to go back left but the horse had its own ideas.

To me this is just not herding but rather a horse doing what it wants to do and a 112 lbs. or so guy who can't get his horse outside, not a rider riding unsafely to intimidate another horse to back off. Having said that the DQ was fair under the circumstances but I just don't agree that the rider should be punished for what appears to me to much more likely be an uncooperative horse instead of a dangerous ride.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by pointman

Watching the replay, I can't see how someone would think that Irad did that purposely. Did he try to get his horse from the 10 post over to the rail somewhere midpack to try to save ground? Yes. Do many riders try to do that? Yes, and more probably should.

I just don't see him trying to steer the horse into Davis's horse, seems to me that Irad's horse was lugging in and he was trying to get the horse to go back left but the horse had its own ideas.

To me this is just not herding but rather a horse doing what it wants to do and a 112 lbs. or so guy who can't get his horse outside, not a rider riding unsafely to intimidate another horse to back off. Having said that the DQ was fair under the circumstances but I just don't agree that the rider should be punished for what appears to me to much more likely be an uncooperative horse instead of a dangerous ride.

I can't believe you didn't get the memo that Irad is a criminal and everyone knows it.

[Kitan]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I can't believe you didn't get the memo that Irad is a criminal and everyone knows it.

So, irrespective of this one race, you think he is a clean rider? Also, pretty sure that you are the only person in this thread to call anyone a murderer or criminal.

[10 pnt move up]

Wow just hear Richard Migliore's comments about the ride. He turned my post into words on Steve's show as the content is the same about rider error.

Hopefully those involved learned a valuable lesson.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Kitan

So, irrespective of this one race, you think he is a clean rider? Also, pretty sure that you are the only person in this thread to call anyone a murderer or criminal.

I think he rides aggressively like every other successful jockey in New York. I don't think there's any evidence to suggest he's a dirty rider or is putting anyone in an abnormal amount of danger.

But that's beside the point. The ease at which people throw around accusations that jockeys are, at best, indifferent to potentially causing major injuries/deaths is just gross. If you think Irad is out there intentionally putting people in danger, that's on you to prove it, not me to disprove it. That's a very serious allegation and one that's much easier to make from behind a keyboard rather than on the back of a horse.

[Kitan]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I think he rides aggressively like every other successful jockey in New York. I don't think there's any evidence to suggest he's a dirty rider or is putting anyone in an abnormal amount of danger.

But that's beside the point. The ease at which people throw around accusations that jockeys are, at best, indifferent to potentially causing major injuries/deaths is just gross. If you think Irad is out there intentionally putting people in danger, that's on you to prove it, not me to disprove it. That's a very serious allegation and one that's much easier to make from behind a keyboard rather than on the back of a horse.

I don't think anyone here has said that. At least what I am trying to say is that his over aggressiveness, which has been built up in part by the stewards' softness towards him, increase the chances of a serious incident at some point. The next time he is stuck in traffic and decides to bull his way through...it takes a single bad step for catastrophe to occur. Do I think his aggressiveness is used in a manner to deliberately hurt another jockey? Absolutely f****** not, and please don't continue to put those words in my mouth because I have never said that.

[10 pnt move up]

Then Bafferts comments about Nero....he jumped off that question so fast. lmao.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Wow just hear Richard Migliore's comments about the ride. He turned my post into words on Steve's show as the content is the same about rider error.

Hopefully those involved learned a valuable lesson.

Thought Mig was excellent today.

Appears Ortiz getting 5 day suspension..

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Then Bafferts comments about Nero....he jumped off that question so fast. lmao.

As little as he said, was pretty clear what his thoughts were.

[cakes44]

Truly embarrassing ride by Garcia.