Jockey shenanigans mar BC prep races

[ateamstupid]

The two incidents are completely incomparable. Espinoza made Shared Belief go slightly wider than he would've gone normally. Even though NYRA somehow hasn't made available a head-on of the JCGC, it looked like Alvarado could've killed Rajiv. Not remotely the same thing.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

The two incidents are completely incomparable. Espinoza made Shared Belief go slightly wider than he would've gone normally. Even though NYRA somehow hasn't made available a head-on of the JCGC, it looked like Alvarado could've killed Rajiv. Not remotely the same thing.

These things can happen though when you are "Race riding" its one of the reasons why some of us do not condone hearding horses out 6 paths. Some see it as fine.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

The two incidents are completely incomparable. Espinoza made Shared Belief go slightly wider than he would've gone normally.

Slightly wider? Victor practically bought SB a ticket to watch the race from the stands compared to where everybody else was in terms of paths and where his own mount should've been. Shared Belief normally goes 5-7 paths out all the way around? Victor ruined Sky Kingdom's chances to get a piece of anything. It wasn't fair to his horse or owner so if nothing else he needs to get jacked up over that.

Originally Posted by pointman

Rabbits have been used forever. The difference is that the rabbit is used to employ its speed to tire a horse who has speed and cannot be controlled to be rated, not used in a dangerous manner to impede a horse from winning.

You know sometimes rabbits don't know their role and forget to stop running.

Yup, nobody gave Sir Barton the memo. He spoiled Billy Kelly's party and went on to glory. Nothing says a rabbit's definitely gonna help another horse at their own expense. Maybe they get loose on the lead so even if they need it to win, they luck out sometimes and get left to it.

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

The two incidents are completely incomparable. Espinoza made Shared Belief go slightly wider than he would've gone normally. Even though NYRA somehow hasn't made available a head-on of the JCGC, it looked like Alvarado could've killed Rajiv. Not remotely the same thing.

If you use Xpressbet you can see the replay and it will show the stewards inquiry head on. It looked like to me that Alvarado just thought he could make it through the opening towards the rail. I am not sure he ever saw the other horse there. The problem is that it is his responsibility to know where other horses are and not to impede. I don't think it was in any way deliberate.

[Benny]

Mig had a curious take on a possible scenario, which andy termed a conspiracy rheory . Espinosa did his number on Shared Belief so SB would havesometning taken out of him, so California Chrome would have a better chance in BC, after what happened to CC in the PA derby. Migs theory is that you would like to have an easy race before the big one,not a hard one, ie when working a horse have the big piece of work two out and aneasy work as the last one.

As far as rabbits go,didn't Dutrow multiple rabbits in one race a few years ago, the Woodward in 2005, Saint Liam and Commentator, after Commentator won the Whitney at Saratoga,as lone spead.

" After Saint Liam lost the Whitney Handicap at Saratoga, the trainer Richard Dutrow Jr. decided to take no chances yesterday in the Woodward at Belmont Park.

Dutrow triple-teamed Commentator, the Whitney winner, and his three horses proved to be far more than Commentator could handle. With an assist from his colony of so-called rabbits, Saint Liam dominated, winning by two lengths.

On Aug. 6, Commentator sneaked away to an easy early lead on his way to the Whitney victory over Saint Liam. Dutrow's answer yesterday was to control the pace with two speed horses.

Crafty Player and Show Boot did their job as rabbits, ganging up on the Nick Zito-trained Commentator, hounding him for as long as they could. Commentator zipped through an opening six furlongs i..............."

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...5AC0A9639C8B63

Here are the trip notes, couldnot find a replay,

Race Comments: SAINT LIAM came away in good order, raced close up outside while in hand, cruised up three wide on the turn, galloped to a clear lead entering the stretch and remained safely clear while wrapped up, winning in handy fashion. SIR SHACKLETON was outrun early, rallied three wide on the turn and finished gamely while no serious threat to the winner. COMMENTATOR broke well and argued the pace while under attack from both sides, disposed of his assailants after three quarters but was in no shape to handle the winner and gave way in the final furlong. SHOW BOOT contested the pace along the inside, quit on the turn, dropped far back and was distanced. CRAFTY PLAYER contested the pace from the outside, quit after five furlongs, dropped far back and was distanced despite being kept to the task.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Benny

Mig had a curious take on a possible scenario, which andy termed a conspiracy rheory . Espinosa did his number on Shared Belief so SB would havesometning taken out of him, so California Chrome would have a better chance in BC, after what happened to CC in the PA derby. Migs theory is that you would like to have an easy race before the big one,not a hard one, ie when working a horse have the big piece of work two out and aneasy work as the last one.

As far as rabbits go,didn't Dutrow multiple rabbits in one race a few years ago, the Woodward in 2006, Saint Liam and Commentator, after Commentator won the Whitney at Saratoga,as lone spead.

" After Saint Liam lost the Whitney Handicap at Saratoga, the trainer Richard Dutrow Jr. decided to take no chances yesterday in the Woodward at Belmont Park.

Dutrow triple-teamed Commentator, the Whitney winner, and his three horses proved to be far more than Commentator could handle. With an assist from his colony of so-called rabbits, Saint Liam dominated, winning by two lengths.

On Aug. 6, Commentator sneaked away to an easy early lead on his way to the Whitney victory over Saint Liam. Dutrow's answer yesterday was to control the pace with two speed horses.

Crafty Player and Show Boot did their job as rabbits, ganging up on the Nick Zito-trained Commentator, hounding him for as long as they could. Commentator zipped through an opening six furlongs i..............."

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...5AC0A9639C8B63

I joked about it being a conspiracy theory.

Commentator hardly " sneaked away " to an easy early lead. He ran 46.41 and 1:09.76. Saint Liam couldn't keep up with him. The notion that Commentator somehow stole that race is ludicrous.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I joked about it being a conspiracy theory.

Commentator hardly " sneaked away " to an easy early lead. He ran 46.41 and 1:09.76. Saint Liam couldn't keep up with him. The notion that Commentator somehow stole that race is ludicrous.

He ran hard every step of that race. 122 or 124 beyer I believe.

[Benny]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I joked about it being a conspiracy theory.

Commentator hardly " sneaked away " to an easy early lead. He ran 46.41 and 1:09.76. Saint Liam couldn't keep up with him. The notion that Commentator somehow stole that race is ludicrous.

Take that up with Bill Finley who wrote the NY Times article quoted from, or did you skip that part of the post. I didnot write it, Finley did !

Interesting that Bailey rode SL and was so critical of Espinosa on his ride vs Shared Belief., of course the rabbits were part of an entry in the Woodward which was not the case at SA saturday

It wasnt Bob Baffert that told Espinoza to go wide and hinder Shared Beliefs chances. It was this guy:



How can Shared Belief even be considered Top 3 yr old if he did not run in any of the Triple Crown races?

[TitanSooner]

Originally Posted by helicopter11

How can Shared Belief even be considered Top 3 yr old if he did not run in any of the Triple Crown races?

Tiznow

[casp0555]

Originally Posted by helicopter11

It wasnt Bob Baffert that told Espinoza to go wide and hinder Shared Beliefs chances. It was this guy:



How can Shared Belief even be considered Top 3 yr old if he did not run in any of the Triple Crown races?

[Benny]

Originally Posted by Benny

As far as rabbits go,didn't Dutrow multiple rabbits in one race a few years ago, the Woodward in 2005, Saint Liam and Commentator, after Commentator won the Whitney at Saratoga,as lone spead.

" After Saint Liam lost the Whitney Handicap at Saratoga, the trainer Richard Dutrow Jr. decided to take no chances yesterday in the Woodward at Belmont Park.

Dutrow triple-teamed Commentator, the Whitney winner, and his three horses proved to be far more than Commentator could handle. With an assist from his colony of so-called rabbits, Saint Liam dominated, winning by two lengths.

On Aug. 6, Commentator sneaked away to an easy early lead on his way to the Whitney victory over Saint Liam. Dutrow's answer yesterday was to control the pace with two speed horses.

Crafty Player and Show Boot did their job as rabbits, ganging up on the Nick Zito-trained Commentator, hounding him for as long as they could. Commentator zipped through an opening six furlongs i..............."

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...5AC0A9639C8B63

Here are the trip notes, couldnot find a replay,

Race Comments: SAINT LIAM came away in good order, raced close up outside while in hand, cruised up three wide on the turn, galloped to a clear lead entering the stretch and remained safely clear while wrapped up, winning in handy fashion. SIR SHACKLETON was outrun early, rallied three wide on the turn and finished gamely while no serious threat to the winner. COMMENTATOR broke well and argued the pace while under attack from both sides, disposed of his assailants after three quarters but was in no shape to handle the winner and gave way in the final furlong. SHOW BOOT contested the pace along the inside, quit on the turn, dropped far back and was distanced. CRAFTY PLAYER contested the pace from the outside, quit after five furlongs, dropped far back and was distanced despite being kept to the task.

Dutrow had a coupled entry of 3 horses,not the case in the SB ,FedBiz race where Baffert had 2 entered separately. Also in the Commentator / Saint Liam case, they speed sandwiched Commentator, not taking him 4-5 wide. I don't know why I can't find a replay of this race. If someone can please do. This sparked outrage at the time.

[iamthelurker]

Originally Posted by geeker2

If you use Xpressbet you can see the replay and it will show the stewards inquiry head on. It looked like to me that Alvarado just thought he could make it through the opening towards the rail. I am not sure he ever saw the other horse there. The problem is that it is his responsibility to know where other horses are and not to impede. I don't think it was in any way deliberate.

Now lets think about this one for a second. Its the Jockey Club Gold Cup and a veteran rider of over 6,000 races aboard one of the main contenders has another one of the main contenders to his inside for the entire backstretch. He just so happens to decide at the point of the turn I am going to duck into the path of one of the horses to beat. This isn't some bug boy who saw day light and went for it, we are talking about a veteran rider in the best colony in the nation. He knew exactly what he was doing.

Now, do I think he intended to drop Maragh? No probably not. But did he intend to check him hindering his progress into the turn? Absolutely. I'm sure he will go into the stewards and argue that Big Cazanova was getting out but as it turned out he ended up having to take back out of the spot he supposedly went for and go around him.

It was an egregious decision and he deserves a months suspension. Seeing as the NY stewards come up short on pretty much everything they do though he will likely get less.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

The two incidents are completely incomparable. Espinoza made Shared Belief go slightly wider than he would've gone normally. Even though NYRA somehow hasn't made available a head-on of the JCGC, it looked like Alvarado could've killed Rajiv. Not remotely the same thing.

spineless pusssy