Who Did the Derby Gods Frown On The Most and Why

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Markedly? Hardly. .33 seconds slower is closer to "slightly."

I'm not a big Union Rags fan but you're way over the top here.

You're right on the poor choice of words on my part. Still, it was 2 lengths faster and the pace call was identical (1:10.37)

I think Union Rags can be a Caleb's Posse type. I'd love to see him sprint again. I'm still a big fan of Union Rags and his ability...just not routing.

Did you know that he ran a 3.25 Ragozin in the BC Juvie and 3.25 Ragozin in the Fountain of Youth? No one is real close to him -- outside of Bodemeister's one 3.50 in the Arkansas Derby.

He's going to continue to get hammered at the windows.

There's never going to be much betting value with Union Rags. It's like some handicappers have put Matz on Jesus Christ's level.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

There's never going to be much betting value with Union Rags. It's like some handicappers have put Matz on Jesus Christ's level.

Matz had Visionaire (a Grand Slam out of a French Deputy mare) who was also an expensive 2yo sale horse with sprint breeding.

Visionaire was 19th by 10, 19th by 16, 19th by 14.5, 18th by 16, and finished 12th by 22 lengths behind Big Brown in the Kentucky Derby.

Finally he gave up on trying to make him into deep closing plodding router, and he won the Gr 1 King's Bishop with him a few months later.

Union Rags won the Saratoga Special wire-to-wire at 6.5f setting a 21 3/5ths first quarter. To me, he's just a horse with a lot of raw speed, an obvious sprinter/miler pedigree, and a horse who's closing punch becomes more watered down the further he goes. I don't even know who's going to be in the Belmont -- but if he wins it I know I will lose money.

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Matz had Visionaire (a Grand Slam out of a French Deputy mare) who was also an expensive 2yo sale horse with sprint breeding.

Visionaire was 19th by 10, 19th by 16, 19th by 14.5, 18th by 16, and finished 12th by 22 lengths behind Big Brown in the Kentucky Derby.

Finally he gave up on trying to make him into deep closing plodding router, and he won the Gr 1 King's Bishop with him a few months later.

Union Rags won the Saratoga Special wire-to-wire at 6.5f setting a 21 3/5ths first quarter. To me, he's just a horse with a lot of raw speed, an obvious sprinter/miler pedigree, and a horse who's closing punch becomes more watered down the further he goes. I don't even know who's going to be in the Belmont -- but if he wins it I know I will lose money.

Every time you see an interview with Matz, he mentions that Rags will be better the further he goes.
Physically, UR sure looks like a one turn horse.

[clambeau]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

There's never going to be much betting value with Union Rags. It's like some handicappers have put Matz on Jesus Christ's level.

That happens when you're limping around after saving people from a plane crash, with Olympic medals dangling from your neck all the while pushing a 100 yr old lady in a wheel chair with posters of Barbaro dragging like a kite tail behind