Havre De Grace Retired

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I dont even understand what point you are trying to make.

I'm not an insider who visits barns now and again. Though I do view vet reports 5 days per week, mostly for show horses.

Well, you didn't review this one very well, did you?

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Well, you didn't review this one very well, did you?

wow that was a good one.

listen here smart guy.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I dont even know 1 /20th of what Riot does when it comes lameness evaluations. If you think you are a better judge of lameness than the professional (Riot), than have at it. But you are not.

[Dahoss]

This is like a political discussion only in the paddock. Awesome.

I know zero about lameness, but I know one thing, I'll take Rollo's opinion, expertise and general knowledge over about 99% of the people here. Plus he referenced Weekend at Bernie's and Office Space in the same post. Conversation should have ended there.

Just because someone doesn't line their posts with their professional achievements and resume does NOT mean they are clueless or have no idea what they are talking about.

[Antitrust32]

This is ridiculous that I have to defend my arch enemy.

I'll give her crap all day long when she says things like her vet degree makes her an expert on climate change.

But when she talks about things like lameness exams and lasix use, she's not just pulling stuff out of her butt.

[Antitrust32]

yay now dahoss is here to type words yet say nothing relevant to anything!

you showed up later than i thought you would

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

yay now dahoss is here to type words yet say nothing relevant to anything!

you showed up later than i thought you would

Interesting response. Especially considering I wasn't responding to you at all. Hopefully one day my contributions here will be able to match yours.

I doubt it though. I actually follow racing instead of just pretending to.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I doubt it though. I actually follow racing instead of just pretending to.

good for you, i forgot you know so much about me outside of Nerdy trail.


what that supposed to be an insult or something?

[Antitrust32]

I guess spending my extra money on golf an vacations (mostly to horse tracks, huh) instead of losing my money at the windows makes me less qualified to post here. good to know.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

what that supposed to be an insult or something?

Nah. Despite your penchant for just posting for the sake of posting I actually like you and always have.

Apparently the feeling isn't mutual, but I'll try and find a way to go on.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

wow that was a good one.

listen here smart guy.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I dont even know 1 /20th of what Riot does when it comes lameness evaluations. If you think you are a better judge of lameness than the professional (Riot), than have at it. But you are not.

Again, evasion.

Let's clean this up nice and neat so you can be on your way.

You:
"the vet isnt even recommending treatment like shock wave. Just 60 days stall rest and hand walking."

The vet:
"In a lesser horse we would rehabilitate, probably using stem cell therapy, but it takes a year to fully resolve, and it usually reduces a horses quality...we should stop her racing career."

Yeah, he's not recommending any special treatment...just retirement.

As far evaluating lameness, again, you have been completely turned around and bent over a barrel by Riot.

Neither Riot nor anyone else in this thread was involved in the examination of Havre De Grace, so any purported skill in lameness evaulation is irrelevent. What is relevant is that the examining veterinarian noted that Havre De Grace was "1/5 lame" on his written report. Non-examining veterinarian Riot noted that Havre De Grace was "not lame" on her DT post.

Who exactly is trying to be a better judge than whom here?

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Again, evasion.

Let's clean this up nice and neat so you can be on your way.

You:
"the vet isnt even recommending treatment like shock wave. Just 60 days stall rest and hand walking."

The vet:
"In a lesser horse we would rehabilitate, probably using stem cell therapy, but it takes a year to fully resolve, and it usually reduces a horses quality...we should stop her racing career."

Yeah, he's not recommending any special treatment...just retirement.

As far evaluating lameness, again, you have been completely turned around and bent over a barrel by Riot.

Neither Riot nor anyone else in this thread was involved in the examination of Havre De Grace, so any purported skill in lameness evaulation is irrelevent. What is relevant is that the examining veterinarian noted that Havre De Grace was "1/5 lame" on his written report. Non-examining veterinarian Riot noted that Havre De Grace was "not lame" on her DT post.

Who exactly is trying to be a better judge than whom here?

minor issues can show up on radiographs and MRI's that cause no physical lameness to the horse.

Is this horse visably lame? no (or at least not likely.. i havent seen the horse, nor would I be able to tell if I did see that horse, but a 1 / 5 tells you the horse is not visably lame)

does the horse have an issue? yes (in this case desmitis in the RF middle distal sesamoidean ligament)

according to the report, the vet is most concered with this issue affecting other ligaments in the RF if the horse is raced or trained. That kind of thing happens ALL the time. one minor issue (some times not even visably seen) starts a domino effect and now the horse is severly lame.

a 1.5 on a flexion test is a pretty minor finding.

so no, the horse will not physically appear lame. The horse has desmitis as shown on the radiograph. If they were real concerned about this finding, there are many ways of treatment which the vet does not seem neccessary.

a 1.5 on a flexion would make me concerned that lameness could occur in the near future. give her stall rest instead of training which is hard on a horses' legs and the horse should stay happy and pain free.

Since its so damn subjective and this arguement is lame.. you can win Rollo.

[Riot]

RolloTomasi wrote: Neither Riot nor anyone else in this thread was involved in the examination of Havre De Grace, so any purported skill in lameness evaulation is irrelevent.

Nope. That's exactly why we professionals all use the same proscribed lameness scale. So when a specialist vet, like Dr. Bramlage, sends his written report back the original referring vet - as Porter generally published for us - the original vet that reads it knows exactly what was found. And very importantly, the insurance company - that would be someone like Antitrust - also knows exactly what was found.

And the only people left confused about what the professionals are doing, are those proving John Gabriel's internet theory true

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Riot

Nope. That's exactly why we professionals all use the same proscribed lameness scale. So when a specialist vet, like Dr. Bramlage, sends his written report back the original referring vet - as Porter generally published for us - the original vet that reads it knows exactly what was found.

Only you're not using the same proscribed lameness scale. You're saying that a horse that is exhibiting a AAEP grade 1 lameness is not lame.

Come off it already. Your trying to evoke visions of crippled, brokedown horses to downplay the admittedly minor degree of lameness observed in Havre De Grace. It's obvious you're trying to blow smoke and hide behind the wide range of severity of lameness to save face. It's disingenuous and pathetic.

What's the difference between a grade 0 and a grade 1 on the AAEP scale?

And very importantly, the insurance company - that would be someone like Antitrust - also knows exactly what was found.

Cool. So even the insurance adjusters are experts in lameness now.

Do they use more than one lameness scale to cloud the issue and suit their purposes, too?

[Antitrust32]

Question Rollo..

How do you exhibit (a word you have repeatedly used in this thread) a G 1 lameness when 1 / 5 lameness is not visible?

fyi, the definition of exhibit is to show outwardly.

I feel like you are trying to be as deceptive as you claim Riot and I to be.