Founding fathers liked taxed government health care

[Nascar1966]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

There's 8,000 people working for the company i work for.. I will bet you 95% of them will not vote for Obama based on this ridiculous, costly health bill that makes my somewhat decent insurance turn into crap with an outrageously high deductable.

But Riot knows everything, and surely Obamacare had nothing to do with my insurance company changing all its coverage (and citing Obamacare as the reason).

I wasn't misled by Obama's lies in 2008 and wont be misled by this disgrace of a President in 2012. If you dont agree with Riot your deemed to be a hateful person.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Nascar1966

I wasn't misled by Obama's lies in 2008 and wont be misled by this disgrace of a President in 2012. If you dont agree with Riot your deemed to be a hateful person.

GFY

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Nascar1966

I wasn't misled by Obama's lies in 2008 and wont be misled by this disgrace of a President in 2012. If you dont agree with Riot your deemed to be a hateful person.

Nonsense and false. Let's be clear: I called your words about hispanics hateful because you're a bigot, and they were hateful words.

Not because you disagreed with me.

[Danzig]

first of all, any claim of the founding fathers would.......fill in the blank, is disingenuous. the founding fathers didnt agree on much of anything individually, but could certainly school all of us on the art of compromise. thomas jefferson has to rolling in his grave at the current state of the bloated fed.

as for the law affecting things now, before its officially enacted....of course its had an effect. ins cos are being forced to expand coverage, they have to raise rates to stay ahead of the upcoming cost they...well, we, will have to pay.

[trackrat59]

The Founding Fathers. When they wrote all the good crap they wrote way back when they clearly had no idea what the world would look like today. If they could come back I think they would ask for an eraser.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by trackrat59

The Founding Fathers. When they wrote all the good crap they wrote way back when they clearly had no idea what the world would look like today. If they could come back I think they would ask for an eraser.

I think the populace should be allowed all the guns they want, as long as they are muskets.

[trackrat59]

Originally Posted by Riot

I think the populace should be allowed all the guns they want, as long as they are muskets.

Riot you are aptly named.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by trackrat59

Riot you are aptly named.

That is my favorite dog. From the day he was born, he never slept. All the other puppies would nurse and sleep, nurse and sleep - he'd nurse and stay awake, crawling around over them creating a riot. His mother would get out of the whelping box to escape him. As they grew, he lead the chaos and destruction in puppyland. He used to escape the puppy yard constantly, right over the fence. He'd "run riot" on any game he saw - birds, cats, rabbits, balloons in the sky, whatever. He turned out a good kid. But exhausting

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

I think the populace should be allowed all the guns they want, as long as they are muskets.

knowing that the founding fathers were fairly intelligent, and witness to some amazing discoveries, i'm sure they knew that the future would not quite resemble the present. including firearms.

[Riot]

ins cos are being forced to expand coverage, they have to raise rates to stay ahead of the upcoming cost they..

Or, insurance companies are not forced to expand coverage, as much as the bill will hand them 30 million new people that have to buy insurance from them and will pay them for it.

There is a provision in the PPACA that insurance companies in the future will have to spend 80% of their income on clients (not profits) so they are simply trying to price gouge as much as they can, now, before they are prohibited from doing it any more.

It's pretty funny, because this bill has been accused, by the left, of being better for the insurance companies than people.

[trackrat59]

Here's one big problem Obama has not mentioned. There's a major shortage of primary care physicians in this country. As more people gain access to health care the problem will only be compounded.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by trackrat59

Here's one big problem Obama has not mentioned. There's a major shortage of primary care physicians in this country. As more people gain access to health care the problem will only be compounded.

That has been mentioned. They will just make more doctors. Med schools have already increased their enrollment. Seats available to be a doctor have always gone in up and down cycles.

When I chose between med school or vet school, all the doctors I knew hated insurance companies. Not practicing medicine, they loved that, but the BS insurance hoops they had to go through, that actively restricted their practice of medicine.

Insurance companies, not doctors, dictate which diagnostic tests and care you get to have for what conditions, etc. - by what they will reimburse for them.

How many new moms have been kicked out of the hospital after 24 hours? And GI surgery patients sent home after 5 days, when 6-7 would have suited them better? Insurance won't pay, off you go. Women with undiagnosed breast cancer, because insurance company would only pay for one mammogram every 5 years. Diabetes undiagnosed because the insurance company wouldn't pay for a blood test annually? Etc.

There are plenty of doctors who have "gone off the grid", and provide basic family practice/internal medicine services without dealing with insurance for the basics (wellness, blood tests, etc) and thus keeping patient costs very low and realistic.

Saying "but we don't have enough doctors" is no reason not to provide healthcare to millions of people. It's easy to make more doctors. You just have to go back and make the profession one of medicine, not subservience to insurance company dictates. One big headache to keeping people from choosing medicine as a career is having to deal with insurance companies. Having to hire multiple people in your office just to deal with the forms, having the insurance company dictate how you practice medicine, what you can do for patients, etc.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Riot

They will just make more doctors. It's easy to make more doctors. .

trying to figure out how to quote multiple posts!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

Or, insurance companies are not forced to expand coverage, as much as the bill will hand them 30 million new people that have to buy insurance from them and will pay them for it.

There is a provision in the PPACA that insurance companies in the future will have to spend 80% of their income on clients (not profits) so they are simply trying to price gouge as much as they can, now, before they are prohibited from doing it any more.

It's pretty funny, because this bill has been accused, by the left, of being better for the insurance companies than people.

from fact check dot org:

Most of the new law has yet to go into effect — and it won’t until 2014 — but some provisions affecting insurers were instituted this fall. So far, insurers can’t deny coverage to kids because of preexisting conditions, and they must allow dependents to stay on their parents’ insurance until age 26. They also must provide free preventive care and eliminate lifetime and certain annual monetary caps on coverage.


free. lovely word, isn't it? only someone is paying for it.

all too true that most of the increases yearly are due to rising medical costs overall, but it's also true that there is an estimated 4% increase due to the new law.

besides, lifetime caps being removed as well as removing rules regarding pre-existing conditions will cause rising costs to insurance companies, who will pass that on to their customers. does anyone really think that these companies will accept a lower bottom line, that they'll choose to absorb these costs? yeah, right.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

all too true that most of the increases yearly are due to rising medical costs overall, but it's also true that there is an estimated 4% increase due to the new law.

besides, lifetime caps being removed as well as removing rules regarding pre-existing conditions will cause rising costs to insurance companies, who will pass that on to their customers. does anyone really think that these companies will accept a lower bottom line, that they'll choose to absorb these costs? yeah, right.

Yeah, I've heard about 4-10%, too. We won't see the entire benefit until everything has been in place for a couple years, which will be 2016 or so.

[Danzig]

i won't hold my breath waiting to see any 'benefits'. i'm one of the people who pays for all the stuff that others hold their hand out for, who think it's their right. matter of fact, i get one day off this week instead of two. i'm such an idiot.