Rachel Alexandra a go for La Troienne

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by CSC

There's not much confidence from the Rachel camp when you already concede she will lose to Zenyatta out west even without attempting a race, what does that say? Then we come to the Apple Blossom and again they are not confident of facing Zenyatta on their preferred surface. Again that doesn't speak volumes from a faction that believes their horse is superior. Again, I state I believe Rachel is a good horse, a very good horse infact. Great? Not at this point. Better than Zenyatta not even close at this stage, Jess knows this and that is why we now have a last minute entry of Rach in the "Careless Jeweless" La Troienne. But Jess and SA have always been great at cherry picking races haven't they?

Yeah, they cherry picked the hell out of her races at three. And I'm sure they're ducking Careless Jewel. Just stop it. Did you ever think that perhaps not every single decision they make for RA is with Zenyatta in mind? This pretending that the BCC would've been a fair fight over a surface Rachel never set foot on and one that Zenyatta basically slept on is laughable.

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

The truely great ones can run on anything IMO.

You must have quite the limited list of great horses then, if success on three different surfaces is a prerequisite.

Originally Posted by Revidere

Didn't Rachel win nicely on poly?

She won an N2L at Keeneland. Do I really have to explain why that's different than the Breeders' Cup at Santa Anita? And I'm sure Curlin would've been dusted by a bunch of European turf horses had the BCC been on dirt. As for your other comment, there's a difference between seeking out top competition and perhaps not finding it (even though I think RA's comp in '09 still outweighed Zenyatta's) and running against the same four or five handpicked tomato cans in your backyard all year.

[Revidere]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

She won an N2L at Keeneland. Do I really have to explain why that's different than the Breeders' Cup at Santa Anita? And I'm sure Curlin would've been dusted by a bunch of European turf horses had the BCC been on dirt. As for your other comment, there's a difference between seeking out top competition and perhaps not finding it (even though I think RA's comp in '09 still outweighed Zenyatta's) and running against the same four or five handpicked tomato cans in your backyard all year.

I didnt compare a N2L to the Breeder's Cup, but she did show an affinity for it. Curlin was all out to beat Past the Point and Wanderin Boy his last two starts before the Breeder's Cup. His loss in the BC gave Jackson an excuse for Rachel not to run on synthetics. My only other point is everyone knew where Zenyatta was last year. Why didnt they (Rachel notwithstanding) ship there to face her? Especially since the Breeder's Cup was in Cali. The argument goes both ways I think.

Was Flashing or Gabby's Golden Gal better than Life is Sweet? Was beating Gio Ponti and Twice Over on a surface they preferred not as impressive as the Haskell or the Woodward.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Revidere

I didnt compare a N2L to the Breeder's Cup, but she did show an affinity for it. Curlin was all out to beat Past the Point and Wanderin Boy his last two starts before the Breeder's Cup. His loss in the BC gave Jackson an excuse for Rachel not to run on synthetics. My only other point is everyone knew where Zenyatta was last year. Why didnt they (Rachel notwithstanding) ship there to face her? Especially since the Breeder's Cup was in Cali. The argument goes both ways I think.

Was Flashing or Gabby's Golden Gal better than Life is Sweet? Was beating Gio Ponti and Twice Over on a surface they preferred not as impressive as the Haskell or the Woodward.

Gio Ponti preferred synthetics? Based on what? And Twice Over? For real? And you're cherry picking some of the lousier horses behind RA and comparing them to the best mare behind Zenyatta.

I think a good horse winning an N2L over a synthetic track doesn't demonstrate an "affinity" for synthetics the way you say. And people are conveniently downplaying the role that the different surface in the BCC played and how much the race's result would be overblown. They knew Zenyatta loved the SA surface. They had no idea how Rachel would like it. They knew the winner would be called the definitively better horse. I would've said it's not worth it as well. Once again, it's demonstrably easier to transfer synthetic form to dirt than vice versa.

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Gio Ponti preferred synthetics? Based on what? And Twice Over? For real? And you're cherry picking some of the lousier horses behind RA and comparing them to the best mare behind Zenyatta.

I think a good horse winning an N2L over a synthetic track doesn't demonstrate an "affinity" for synthetics the way you say. And people are conveniently downplaying the role that the different surface in the BCC played and how much the race's result would be overblown. They knew Zenyatta loved the SA surface. They had no idea how Rachel would like it. They knew the winner would be called the definitively better horse. I would've said it's not worth it as well. Once again, it's demonstrably easier to transfer synthetic form to dirt than vice versa.

Where are the hard and fast statistics for this ?
To me there is a distinct possibility that the most talented 3yos happen to be training in California. If Lookin At Lucky had started his career in New York would he have run a worse race in the Breeders Cup? The statistics have to cover a much broader range than graded stakes to confirm this theory.

I'm sure for every dirt horse that fails to perform up to par on syn. a syn. horse can be found to underperform on dirt.

[Revidere]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Gio Ponti preferred synthetics? Based on what? And Twice Over? For real?
Gio Ponti and Twice Over both transferred their grass form to the synthetics. Zenyatta beating them was impressive. Please don't downplay that performance. I didnt even mention Summer Bird, because all the Rachelites (like that?) would say "he was racing on synthetics!!!" He ran his race as well and she dusted him.
And you're cherry picking some of the lousier horses behind RA and comparing them to the best mare behind Zenyatta.

All I heard after the Test was that Flashing joined Gabby's Golden Gal as Grade 1 winners that Rachel soundly thrashed. What other horses were there? Mine that Bird? Musket Man? Macho Again? Bullsbay? Has any of them besides Summer Bird and Flashing even won again?

I think a good horse winning an N2L over a synthetic track doesn't demonstrate an "affinity" for synthetics the way you say. And people are conveniently downplaying the role that the different surface in the BCC played and how much the race's result would be overblown. They knew Zenyatta loved the SA surface. They had no idea how Rachel would like it. They knew the winner would be called the definitively better horse. I would've said it's not worth it as well. Once again, it's demonstrably easier to transfer synthetic form to dirt than vice versa.

That is entirely correct. Which is why running over it once or twice to see how she handled it would might have been something to try. Would it have ruined her reputation? Didn't seem to hurt Curlin's. It's funny, Shirreffs just got killed on this board for "declaring" so early that Zenyatta wouldn't run in the Stephen Foster, while Jackson made his decision in June that Rachel wouldn't run in the Breeder's Cup.

Not sure where this goes from here, but I just want them to remain healthy and happy. If they run against each other, so be it. One great champion will win and the other will go back to the Assmussen barn.

[randallscott35]

clown infestation

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

clown infestation

Irony meter explosion.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Irony meter explosion.

Douche meter for you and the knee skinners on here.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by Revidere

Not sure where this goes from here, but I just want them to remain healthy and happy. If they run against each other, so be it. One great champion will win and the other will go back to the Assmussen barn.

Well sure, once RA beats Z what else is there to do but retire, and the Mosses will bow to Asmussen's expert skill and send Z over to his barn. I kid I kid. I adore John Sherriffs. No diss intended. They're both extraordinary gals. Watching them do what they do best at the same time would probably blow my mind, I know that.

[letswastemoney]

It's hard to be a Zenyatta fan and constantly have to hear from people that she's completely invincible and capable of no wrong.

I don't think most Rachel Alexandra fans believe she can definitively beat Zenyatta on dirt no matter what. The argument seems to be she "can" beat Zenyatta.

But for Zenyatta fans, there is no "can" or any other possibility. Zenyatta will win in their minds no matter what. So it's hard to like Z when some of her fans are that radical.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

It's hard to be a Zenyatta fan and constantly have to hear from people that she's completely invincible and capable of no wrong.

I don't think most Rachel Alexandra fans believe she can definitively beat Zenyatta on dirt no matter what. The argument seems to be she "can" beat Zenyatta.

But for Zenyatta fans, there is no "can" or any other possibility. Zenyatta will win in their minds no matter what. So it's hard to like Z when some of her fans are that radical.

Zenyatta has yet to run a race as fast as a few of Rachel's. There is no debate.

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

It's hard to be a Zenyatta fan and constantly have to hear from people that she's completely invincible and capable of no wrong.

I don't think most Rachel Alexandra fans believe she can definitively beat Zenyatta on dirt no matter what. The argument seems to be she "can" beat Zenyatta.

But for Zenyatta fans, there is no "can" or any other possibility. Zenyatta will win in their minds no matter what. So it's hard to like Z when some of her fans are that radical.

Why should this matter to anyone ? There are radicals on both sides so what? Both horses are for the ages and should be respected and admired on their accomplishments and the excitement they bring to racing.

I think CSC would lick Zen's taint.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Revidere

Not sure where this goes from here, but I just want them to remain healthy and happy. If they run against each other, so be it. One great champion will win and the other will go back to the Assmussen barn.

You said she beat Gio Ponti on a surface "he preferred," which isn't remotely true. And I like the faux impartiality comment here.

Wake me up when they finally decide Zenyatta's proven all she can prove in California. I have a feeling I'll be asleep for a while.

[Revidere]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

You said she beat Gio Ponti on a surface "he preferred," which isn't remotely true. And I like the faux impartiality comment here.

Whatever you think about Gio Ponti is fine. The horse ran a winning race. Are you going to now say he didn't like the surface? Pick your semantic.
And there is no faux impartiality here (thanks for the psycho-analysis). I'm a racing fan. I love watching good horses run. I think Rachel Alexandra is outstanding.

I just think Zenyatta's better.

Wake me up when they finally decide Zenyatta's proven all she can prove in California. I have a feeling I'll be asleep for a while.

Good one. haven't heard that in one of these threads for a while. If this keeps up you may be able to insert the "the only horse Zenyatta beat was Ginger Punch and boy was she slow and overrated" line.

[Revidere]

And can Rachel Paint?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Moneigh-Painting...item2c5431e1fb

[CSC]

Final word until I may need to leave this forum again, I want to leave the fanclub so they can bask again in the afterglow of Rachel's return to her winning ways or one can hope this Fri. If she ever faces Zenyatta, she will be exposed, you heard it here. You guys know I called Summer Bird months in advance of his Belmont win, one of my last posts here before my hiatus was calling the Interactif in the Hall of Fame at Saratoga and I also just called the Derby Trial and yes it sucks being good, but I am telling you Rachel will not beat Zenyatta in the Classic if they do meet down the road. Count on it.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by CSC

Final word until I may need to leave this forum again, I want to leave the fanclub so they can bask again in the afterglow of Rachel's return to her winning ways or one can hope this Fri. If she ever faces Zenyatta, she will be exposed, you heard it here. You guys know I called Summer Bird months in advance of his Belmont win, one of my last posts here before my hiatus was calling the Interactif in the Hall of Fame at Saratoga and I also just called the Derby Trial and yes it sucks being good, but I am telling you Rachel will not beat Zenyatta in the Classic if they do meet down the road. Count on it.

We'll be waiting with baited breath for your return Nostradamus.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by CSC

Final word until I may need to leave this forum again, I want to leave the fanclub so they can bask again in the afterglow of Rachel's return to her winning ways or one can hope this Fri. If she ever faces Zenyatta, she will be exposed, you heard it here. You guys know I called Summer Bird months in advance of his Belmont win, one of my last posts here before my hiatus was calling the Interactif in the Hall of Fame at Saratoga and I also just called the Derby Trial and yes it sucks being good, but I am telling you Rachel will not beat Zenyatta in the Classic if they do meet down the road. Count on it.

This post should forever go down in the annals of Derby Trail history. You are the best.

NT

[CSC]

DrugS, hacked my account...That wasn't me.