1973 Preakness (UPDATE: Maryland accepts 1:53.0)

Indian Charlie · #1 06-12-2012, 02:43 PM

DRF has a story up about how MD is looking into retiming the Preakness the year Secretariat won it.

What I found interesting was the video. In the beginning of the video, as they approach the gate, they talk about how Sham was kicked/hammered in the head before the race and lost a couple of teeth. Anyone ever heard that before?

http://www.drf.com/news/secretariats...and-commission

outofthebox · #2 06-12-2012, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

DRF has a story up about how MD is looking into retiming the Preakness the year Secretariat won it.

What I found interesting was the video. In the beginning of the video, as they approach the gate, they talk about how Sham was kicked/hammered in the head before the race and lost a couple of teeth. Anyone ever heard that before?

http://www.drf.com/news/secretariats...and-commission

I believe he lost some teeth in the starting gate for the Derby.

tector · #3 06-12-2012, 03:59 PM

The Zapruder film of horse racing....

Riot · #4 06-12-2012, 05:29 PM

Independent timers, at the race, caught Secretariat in record time. Penny Chenery is asking Maryland Jockey Club to review it, and give Secretariat the real, record time, in the record books and history.

I hope they do. The horse earned it.

Yes, I recall at the time after the Preakness, hearing that Sham had knocked out a couple baby teeth in the gate at the Derby. Don't recall it being a kick, but hey, it was decades ago.

Secretariat broke Sham's racing heart on the far turn in the Belmont. Sham ran the Derby in record time, too.

Danzig · #5 06-12-2012, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outofthebox

I believe he lost some teeth in the starting gate for the Derby.

that was the one. knocked out two in the derby gate.
they need to officially re-do the preakness tho. everyone know secretariat has that record. why they choose to be so damned obstinate about it i don't know.

slotdirt · #6 06-12-2012, 06:38 PM

Louis Quatorze protest.

Indian Charlie · #7 06-12-2012, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Louis Quatorze protest.

Tank's Prospect too. A pretty good but forgotten horse.

Calzone Lord · #8 06-12-2012, 11:44 PM

My take on the timing error from a past post I made here:

Quote:

Preakness - you have a dispute between the timer (1:55) and the Daily Racing Form time (1:53 2/5) .. the DRF time is obviously correct because the 1:55 time comes with a 25 flat opening quarter in the charts. The timer was no doubt tripped early .. as three cheap claiming races in the day all featured 23 4/5 opening quarters at 8.5fs. Anyone believe the early pace in those cheap claimers was really 8 lengths faster than the Preakness?

One race prior to the Preakness - Port Conway Lane won an alw race at 8.5fs in 1:43.80 (33 Beyer points slower than DRF Preakness winning time) - one race after the Preakness Buffalo Run won a 4K starter alw for older males at 9f in 1:51.00 (38 Beyer points slower than Preakness)

Buffalo Run was a rock solid 10K claimer with a 2nd and 3rd in recent alw tries. Port Conway Lane had been 1st or 2nd in each of his last 4 recent tries at the alw level. While not stakes caliber horses - these are useful older males.

Based on the DRF Time the figures look like this:

Preakness: Secretariat 123

ALW for older males: Port Conway Lane 90

4k Starter for older males: Buffalo Run 85

9.5K claimer for older males at 8.5f: 1.5 length winner gets 80

5K claimer for older males: 4.5 length winner gets 78

3K claimer for older females: 0.75 length winner gets 63

DaTruth · #9 06-13-2012, 01:05 AM

I'm reserving judgment on whether Secretariat was better than Zenyatta until this matter is resolved.

Calzone Lord · #10 06-13-2012, 05:05 AM

John Edwards liked to talk about "two America's" ... you really did have two Secretariat's.

He was a GREAT, GREAT horse overall ... but also a hot and cold type horse as a 3yo.

The defeats in the Wood, Whitney, and Woodward at age 3 (a sweep Easy Goer accomplished at age 3)

Secretariat also performed moderately in his early season wins.

He came into the Kentucky Derby with Ragozin Sheet figures of 11.00, 6.25, and 12.00 in his 3 Derby preps. Spectacular Bid was running his Derby preps in the 2.50 to 4.50 range and finished his 2yo season supersonic fast. Affirmed was in the 6.50 to 9.25 range for his preps. Slew in the 7.25 to 10.00 range for his preps.

Secretariat, despite being 2yo champion, was not highweight on the mythical Derby Handicap. Also, he almost certainly would not have been the favorite in the Kentucky Derby if he was uncoupled.

A tooth abscess was bothering him -- and almost certainly the reason he was performing below par in his Derby preps. It got treated after the Wood Memorial and his Ragozin figure improved to a 0.75 in the Kentucky Derby.

In the rest of the century -- no one approached Secretariat's Derby Ragozin figure:

Secretariat: 0.75
Spectacular Bid: 1.75
Unbridled: 2.00
Spend A Buck: 2.25
Silver Charm: 3.00

He had a killer Triple Crown series -- and ran some killer races afterwards.

However, he ran five races at age three that weren't up to par with his standard.

Calzone Lord · #11 06-13-2012, 06:10 AM

Here was BY FAR the best stallion from Secretariat's excellent crop.

He simply couldn't stay. Mr. Prospector had a loose lead at Keeneland in a good overnight ALW race in his first route attempt -- he spit the bit.

He spit the bit again in a slow edition of the Derby Trial.

Much like Elusive Quality -- his best game seemed to be sprinting 6 furlongs at Gulfstream Park. In just his 3rd career start -- he set a 6f track record at GP that stood until Artax broke it in the Breeders Cup Sprint.

tector · #12 06-13-2012, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Much like Elusive Quality -- his best game seemed to be sprinting 6 furlongs at Gulfstream Park. In just his 3rd career start -- he set a 6f track record at GP that stood until Artax broke it in the Breeders Cup Sprint.

Artax--I think was IC's second favorite horse, just BARELY behind the four-legged IC.

Just think, IC could have been here as "Artax". What a funny world we live in....

FATPIANO · #13 06-13-2012, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

John Edwards liked to talk about "two America's" ... you really did have two Secretariat's.

He was a GREAT, GREAT horse overall ... but also a hot and cold type horse as a 3yo.

The defeats in the Wood, Whitney, and Woodward at age 3 (a sweep Easy Goer accomplished at age 3)

Secretariat also performed moderately in his early season wins.

He came into the Kentucky Derby with Ragozin Sheet figures of 11.00, 6.25, and 12.00 in his 3 Derby preps. Spectacular Bid was running his Derby preps in the 2.50 to 4.50 range and finished his 2yo season supersonic fast. Affirmed was in the 6.50 to 9.25 range for his preps. Slew in the 7.25 to 10.00 range for his preps.

Secretariat, despite being 2yo champion, was not highweight on the mythical Derby Handicap. Also, he almost certainly would not have been the favorite in the Kentucky Derby if he was uncoupled.

A tooth abscess was bothering him -- and almost certainly the reason he was performing below par in his Derby preps. It got treated after the Wood Memorial and his Ragozin figure improved to a 0.75 in the Kentucky Derby.

In the rest of the century -- no one approached Secretariat's Derby Ragozin figure:

Secretariat: 0.75
Spectacular Bid: 1.75
Unbridled: 2.00
Spend A Buck: 2.25
Silver Charm: 3.00

He had a killer Triple Crown series -- and ran some killer races afterwards.

However, he ran five races at age three that weren't up to par with his standard.

Speaking of The Bid's 2yr old season, did he not win 3 grade 1 races at 3 different tracks in a 3 week time, while setting a track record that still stands today at 1 1/6?

Calzone Lord · #14 06-13-2012, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FATPIANO

Speaking of The Bid's 2yr old season, did he not win 3 grade 1 races at 3 different tracks in a 3 week time, while setting a track record that still stands today at 1 1/6?

Yes. 1:41.60 for 8.5 furlongs still stands as Laurel's track record.

He won the race by 8.5 lengths over General Assembly.

Clever Trick (winner of 18 of 29 lifetime starts. Sire of the outstanding horse and sire Phone Trick) finished 3rd beaten more than 20 lengths in that Laurel Futurity.

Tim The Tiger -- a Grade 1 winner that season -- checked home 4th.

Final time of some famous Laurel Futurity winners on dirt:

Spectacular Bid: 1:41.60
Devil's Bag: 1:42.20 (2nd fastest edition ever)
Secretariat: 1:42.80
Honest Pleasure: 1:42.80
Count Fleet: 1:43.40
Riva Ridge: 1:43.40
Tapit: 1:43.80
Affirmed: 1:44.20
Cure The Blues: 1:44.40
Deputy Minister: 1:44.60
Bet Twice: 1:45.00

Calzone Lord · #15 06-13-2012, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tector

Artax--I think was IC's second favorite horse, just BARELY behind the four-legged IC.

Just think, IC could have been here as "Artax". What a funny world we live in....

He hated Randy Bradshaw, I think.

FATPIANO · #16 06-13-2012, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Yes. 1:41.60 for 8.5 furlongs still stands as Laurel's track record.

He won the race by 8.5 lengths over General Assembly.

Clever Trick (winner of 18 of 29 lifetime starts. Sire of the outstanding horse and sire Phone Trick) finished 3rd beaten more than 20 lengths in that Laurel Futurity.

Tim The Tiger -- a Grade 1 winner that season -- checked home 4th.

Final time of some famous Laurel Futurity winners on dirt:

Spectacular Bid: 1:41.60
Devil's Bag: 1:42.20 (2nd fastest edition ever)
Secretariat: 1:42.80
Honest Pleasure: 1:42.80
Count Fleet: 1:43.40
Riva Ridge: 1:43.40
Tapit: 1:43.80
Affirmed: 1:44.20
Cure The Blues: 1:44.40
Deputy Minister: 1:44.60
Bet Twice: 1:45.00

WOW...............YOUR KNOWLEDGE IS AMAZING. I think after The Bid won those 3 grade 1's, he actually ran again that year , I think 2 weeks later and won, Do you know what race it was?

Calzone Lord · #17 06-13-2012, 11:57 AM

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...50&postcount=6

Indian Charlie · #18 06-13-2012, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tector

Artax--I think was IC's second favorite horse, just BARELY behind the four-legged IC.

Just think, IC could have been here as "Artax". What a funny world we live in....

Artax was a freaking beast, and had he not been trained by that incompetent fool, who knows how good he would have been. I still think that horse was at least as good routing as he was sprinting, too.

However, he was not in the same league as IC.

I was a big fan of Old Trieste from that crop too.

I never would have chosen Artax as a screen name here. I'd probably have chosen Rahy or Cees Tizzy.

FATPIANO · #19 06-13-2012, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...50&postcount=6

Thanks, Your knowledge is very impressive, has any other Champion been undefeated from 7 furlongs to 1 1/4 miles? and just curious as to your opinion on where you would rank The Bid with all the greats?

Calzone Lord · #20 06-13-2012, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Artax was a freaking beast, and had he not been trained by that incompetent fool, who knows how good he would have been. I still think that horse was at least as good routing as he was sprinting, too.

However, he was not in the same league as IC.

I was a big fan of Old Trieste from that crop too.

I never would have chosen Artax as a screen name here. I'd probably have chosen Rahy or Cees Tizzy.

Or maybe Behrens