Derby Trail Forums

Go Back   Derby Trail Forums > Main Forum > The Paddock
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-12-2012, 06:38 PM
slotdirt's Avatar
slotdirt slotdirt is offline
Atlantic City Race Course
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 4,894
Default

Louis Quatorze protest.
__________________
The world's foremost expert on virtually everything on the Redskins 2010 season: "Im going to go out on a limb here. I say they make the playoffs."
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-12-2012, 11:20 PM
Indian Charlie's Avatar
Indian Charlie Indian Charlie is offline
Goodwood
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Southern Maine
Posts: 8,708
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slotdirt View Post
Louis Quatorze protest.
Tank's Prospect too. A pretty good but forgotten horse.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-12-2012, 11:44 PM
Calzone Lord's Avatar
Calzone Lord Calzone Lord is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,552
Default

My take on the timing error from a past post I made here:

Quote:
Preakness - you have a dispute between the timer (1:55) and the Daily Racing Form time (1:53 2/5) .. the DRF time is obviously correct because the 1:55 time comes with a 25 flat opening quarter in the charts. The timer was no doubt tripped early .. as three cheap claiming races in the day all featured 23 4/5 opening quarters at 8.5fs. Anyone believe the early pace in those cheap claimers was really 8 lengths faster than the Preakness?

One race prior to the Preakness - Port Conway Lane won an alw race at 8.5fs in 1:43.80 (33 Beyer points slower than DRF Preakness winning time) - one race after the Preakness Buffalo Run won a 4K starter alw for older males at 9f in 1:51.00 (38 Beyer points slower than Preakness)

Buffalo Run was a rock solid 10K claimer with a 2nd and 3rd in recent alw tries. Port Conway Lane had been 1st or 2nd in each of his last 4 recent tries at the alw level. While not stakes caliber horses - these are useful older males.

Based on the DRF Time the figures look like this:

Preakness: Secretariat 123

ALW for older males: Port Conway Lane 90

4k Starter for older males: Buffalo Run 85

9.5K claimer for older males at 8.5f: 1.5 length winner gets 80

5K claimer for older males: 4.5 length winner gets 78

3K claimer for older females: 0.75 length winner gets 63
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-13-2012, 01:05 AM
DaTruth's Avatar
DaTruth DaTruth is offline
Churchill Downs
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,969
Default

I'm reserving judgment on whether Secretariat was better than Zenyatta until this matter is resolved.
__________________
Still trying to outsmart me, aren't you, mule-skinner? You want me to think that you don't want me to go down there, but the subtle truth is you really don't want me to go down there!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-13-2012, 05:05 AM
Calzone Lord's Avatar
Calzone Lord Calzone Lord is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,552
Default

John Edwards liked to talk about "two America's" ... you really did have two Secretariat's.

He was a GREAT, GREAT horse overall ... but also a hot and cold type horse as a 3yo.

The defeats in the Wood, Whitney, and Woodward at age 3 (a sweep Easy Goer accomplished at age 3)

Secretariat also performed moderately in his early season wins.

He came into the Kentucky Derby with Ragozin Sheet figures of 11.00, 6.25, and 12.00 in his 3 Derby preps. Spectacular Bid was running his Derby preps in the 2.50 to 4.50 range and finished his 2yo season supersonic fast. Affirmed was in the 6.50 to 9.25 range for his preps. Slew in the 7.25 to 10.00 range for his preps.

Secretariat, despite being 2yo champion, was not highweight on the mythical Derby Handicap. Also, he almost certainly would not have been the favorite in the Kentucky Derby if he was uncoupled.

A tooth abscess was bothering him -- and almost certainly the reason he was performing below par in his Derby preps. It got treated after the Wood Memorial and his Ragozin figure improved to a 0.75 in the Kentucky Derby.

In the rest of the century -- no one approached Secretariat's Derby Ragozin figure:

Secretariat: 0.75
Spectacular Bid: 1.75
Unbridled: 2.00
Spend A Buck: 2.25
Silver Charm: 3.00

He had a killer Triple Crown series -- and ran some killer races afterwards.

However, he ran five races at age three that weren't up to par with his standard.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-13-2012, 06:10 AM
Calzone Lord's Avatar
Calzone Lord Calzone Lord is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,552
Default

Here was BY FAR the best stallion from Secretariat's excellent crop.




He simply couldn't stay. Mr. Prospector had a loose lead at Keeneland in a good overnight ALW race in his first route attempt -- he spit the bit.

He spit the bit again in a slow edition of the Derby Trial.

Much like Elusive Quality -- his best game seemed to be sprinting 6 furlongs at Gulfstream Park. In just his 3rd career start -- he set a 6f track record at GP that stood until Artax broke it in the Breeders Cup Sprint.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-13-2012, 10:36 AM
tector's Avatar
tector tector is offline
Sheepshead Bay
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,053
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calzone Lord View Post

Much like Elusive Quality -- his best game seemed to be sprinting 6 furlongs at Gulfstream Park. In just his 3rd career start -- he set a 6f track record at GP that stood until Artax broke it in the Breeders Cup Sprint.
Artax--I think was IC's second favorite horse, just BARELY behind the four-legged IC.

Just think, IC could have been here as "Artax". What a funny world we live in....
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-13-2012, 10:52 AM
FATPIANO's Avatar
FATPIANO FATPIANO is offline
Gulfstream Park
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: nys
Posts: 1,174
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calzone Lord View Post
John Edwards liked to talk about "two America's" ... you really did have two Secretariat's.

He was a GREAT, GREAT horse overall ... but also a hot and cold type horse as a 3yo.

The defeats in the Wood, Whitney, and Woodward at age 3 (a sweep Easy Goer accomplished at age 3)

Secretariat also performed moderately in his early season wins.

He came into the Kentucky Derby with Ragozin Sheet figures of 11.00, 6.25, and 12.00 in his 3 Derby preps. Spectacular Bid was running his Derby preps in the 2.50 to 4.50 range and finished his 2yo season supersonic fast. Affirmed was in the 6.50 to 9.25 range for his preps. Slew in the 7.25 to 10.00 range for his preps.

Secretariat, despite being 2yo champion, was not highweight on the mythical Derby Handicap. Also, he almost certainly would not have been the favorite in the Kentucky Derby if he was uncoupled.

A tooth abscess was bothering him -- and almost certainly the reason he was performing below par in his Derby preps. It got treated after the Wood Memorial and his Ragozin figure improved to a 0.75 in the Kentucky Derby.

In the rest of the century -- no one approached Secretariat's Derby Ragozin figure:

Secretariat: 0.75
Spectacular Bid: 1.75
Unbridled: 2.00
Spend A Buck: 2.25
Silver Charm: 3.00

He had a killer Triple Crown series -- and ran some killer races afterwards.

However, he ran five races at age three that weren't up to par with his standard.
Speaking of The Bid's 2yr old season, did he not win 3 grade 1 races at 3 different tracks in a 3 week time, while setting a track record that still stands today at 1 1/6?
__________________
Arrogate is the best horse since The Bid, and The Bid was better than Secretariat!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-13-2012, 11:41 AM
Calzone Lord's Avatar
Calzone Lord Calzone Lord is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,552
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FATPIANO View Post
Speaking of The Bid's 2yr old season, did he not win 3 grade 1 races at 3 different tracks in a 3 week time, while setting a track record that still stands today at 1 1/6?
Yes. 1:41.60 for 8.5 furlongs still stands as Laurel's track record.

He won the race by 8.5 lengths over General Assembly.

Clever Trick (winner of 18 of 29 lifetime starts. Sire of the outstanding horse and sire Phone Trick) finished 3rd beaten more than 20 lengths in that Laurel Futurity.



Tim The Tiger -- a Grade 1 winner that season -- checked home 4th.

Final time of some famous Laurel Futurity winners on dirt:

Spectacular Bid: 1:41.60
Devil's Bag: 1:42.20 (2nd fastest edition ever)
Secretariat: 1:42.80
Honest Pleasure: 1:42.80
Count Fleet: 1:43.40
Riva Ridge: 1:43.40
Tapit: 1:43.80
Affirmed: 1:44.20
Cure The Blues: 1:44.40
Deputy Minister: 1:44.60
Bet Twice: 1:45.00
Reply With Quote
Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.