Arizona taking away constitutional rights?

[Riot]

Sorry, Dell, I simply couldn't resist


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...ation_law.html

[joeydb]

That link doesn't work.

I am wondering what you mean since certainly illegal aliens breaking our laws do not have constitutional rights, as they are not citizens.

[dellinger63]

Just interested in what constitutional right is being violated. Demanding ID after a traffic stop, suspicious person is done all the time to everyone in fact happened to me last Saturday. And I trust now you don't believe in State's rights? What next? Crowning the Obama family making him king and the family royals? Fittingly the link didn't work for me either.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Just interested in what constitutional right is being violated. Demanding ID after a traffic stop, suspicious person is done all the time to everyone in fact happened to me last Saturday. And I trust now you don't believe in State's rights? What next? Crowning the Obama family making him king and the family royals? Fittingly the link didn't work for me either.

While I did not open the link, Riot is probably referring to the new law proprosal (I do not believe it has been voted on yet) in Arizona that says children born in the United States to Illegals will not be US citzens.. which is unconstitutional, and the Arizona folks would be smart to toss out that law.

Though I do not believe the other law (asking for ID's) is that big of a deal.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

While I did not open the link, Riot is probably referring to the new law proprosal (I do not believe it has been voted on yet) in Arizona that says children born in the United States to Illegals will not be US citzens.. which is unconstitutional, and the Arizona folks would be smart to toss out that law.

Though I do not believe the other law (asking for ID's) is that big of a deal.

If it is as you describe, that new proposal will be thrown out, on the simple grounds that since Arizona is part of the U.S., any child born in Arizona has been born in the United States.

Now I've heard law arguments indicating some ambiguity in the status of children born here from illegal aliens, but if that ever is changed it will be at the Federal level and not piecemeal from one state versus the rest.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by joeydb

If it is as you describe, that new proposal will be thrown out, on the simple grounds that since Arizona is part of the U.S., any child born in Arizona has been born in the United States.

Now I've heard law arguments indicating some ambiguity in the status of children born here from illegal aliens, but if that ever is changed it will be at the Federal level and not piecemeal from one state versus the rest.

exactly.. I imagine that is the law proposal that Riot was talking about.. but I guess you never know with Riot

[AlreadyHome]

ARIZONA IS A RACIST STATE, THEY NEED HELP AN EDUCATION, THOSE
FKN IDIOTS IS 2010 NOT BACK IN THE DAYS

LACK OF EDUCATION AN MANNERS IN THAT STATE IS SO PATHETIC

THE MEXICAN/AMERICANS ARE GONNA TAKE OVER AN CHANGE HISTORY..,
UNTIL THEN IS GONNA BE A BS BACK AN FORTH......

PHIL HELLMUTH SAYS THEY ARE A BUNCH FKN OF IDIOTS
I LAUGH AT THOSE FKN MORONS SHOWS THEIR LEVEL IN LIFE HUMANITY

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

exactly.. I imagine that is the law proposal that Riot was talking about.. but I guess you never know with Riot

Lori you know her!

"President Obama has spoken out against the law because he thinks that the federal government should be determining immigration policy," Clinton said in a June 8 interview with Ecuadoran television channel NTN24.

The law, which is set to take effect on July 29, makes it a crime to be in Arizona without proper immigration papers and requires local police, who are not federal agents responsible for immigration matters, to determine if people are in the country illegally.

she meant this I'm sure because after all, she is Riot!

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

That link doesn't work.

I am wondering what you mean since certainly illegal aliens breaking our laws do not have constitutional rights, as they are not citizens.

I didn't mean that at all. I agree with your statement.

Oh, and just use Dell's link. It's all in the interpretation

[Riot]

Antitrust32 While I did not open the link, Riot is probably referring to the new law proprosal (I do not believe it has been voted on yet) in Arizona that says children born in the United States to Illegals will not be US citzens.. which is unconstitutional, and the Arizona folks would be smart to toss out that law.

Nope

Though I do not believe the other law (asking for ID's) is that big of a deal.

Many, including myself, do. We'll see.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Nope



Many, including myself, do. We'll see.

What do you want Police to do? Use tarot cards?

As I said last Saturday I was pulled over for speeding. The first thing I was asked for was my DL, the second was my proof of insurance. I don't look illegal (maybe the tan) so what gives. Lol

BTW got clocked at 83 in a 55 and the cop was nice enough to write it for 70 in a 55 saving about $150 on the ticket. Now if I had been illegal or wanted I'd have expected to be arrested and rightfully so.

Some real simple questions (hint answer is yes or no)

1) Should an illegal pulled over by a police officer (not Fed) and found to have an active foreign extradition warrant be arrested, held and extradited?

2) Should an illegal pulled over by police (not Fed) for a non-detain violation be arrested and turned over to Federal authorities for processing?

If yes to 1 and no to 2 move on to question 3. If not

3) Do you consider foreign laws to be supreme to homeland laws?

[Danzig]

It is standard practice to request identification from someone when they attract a cops attention. Why its now being made into an issue I don't know

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Danzig

It is standard practice to request identification from someone when they attract a cops attention. Why its now being made into an issue I don't know

because in some people's minds illegals have it tough enough and deserve a pass?

I will give credit where it's due as locally 26 illegals tied to gangs were picked up on a joint effort of local police and Feds. Incidently most were living within 10 miles of Arlington Park. Wonder if police let other illegals living with the gang bangers alone as it seems odd all were picked up by themselves? Don't understand why they don't release names and addresses as that would help neighbors figure out who are the landlords renting to gang members and illegals. Local papers publish names and addresses of shoplifters for Christ sake.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/24-7/24...iens19.article

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

It is standard practice to request identification from someone when they attract a cops attention. Why its now being made into an issue I don't know

Where, and since when, does that identification have to not only identify you, but also prove you are an American citizen? Such business being a function of our federal - not state - government. Only Arizona.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

What do you want Police to do? Use tarot cards?

As I said last Saturday I was pulled over for speeding. The first thing I was asked for was my DL, the second was my proof of insurance. I don't look illegal (maybe the tan) so what gives.

Since when did local police become empowered with enforcing federal law, independent of the feds? I think they should also have demanded proof you are not in arrears on your federal income tax.

What did you currently have on your possession that proved you were an American citizen? Not a drivers license. So you would have gone to jail in AZ, until you could have proved it.

[Danzig]

i thought the new law in az was to allow, or encourage, a policeman who suspects illegality, in this case immigration violations, to further investigate? seems like it would be just one more thing to check into-after all, no doubt your local sheriff is supposed to turn you in if the feds want you for other crimes, kidnapping for instance. why is it that local and regional police forces can handle a variety of crimes, but immigration violations are off limits? is this really that difficult a crime to investigate? what makes it so special? feds want you, they turn you over...u.s. marshals, same thing. state wants you, the locals hold you til the state comes and gets you....so what's the big deal about this?

[Riot]

is this really that difficult a crime to investigate? what makes it so special? feds want you, they turn you over...u.s. marshals, same thing. state wants you, the locals hold you til the state comes and gets you....so what's the big deal about this?

All law enforcement agencies are not the same, nor do they have the same jurisdiction and powers. I don't want my local sheriff investigating me for income tax evasion - do you?

Turning someone over to a different jurisdiction when there is a want/warrant already out for their arrest is NOT the same thing as initiating an investigation into a possible violation of federal law by a local law enforcement agency who does not hold federal jurisdiction.

Currently, if a local cop suspects you of violating federal law, they contact the appropriate federal agency: US Marshal, FBI, etc. They do not do any investigation or arrests on that level independently.

Seriously - I find it simply terrifying that any local yahoo sheriff, any cop on the street in Chicago, or a one-horse town in Nebraska, etc could independently - without contacting the currently appropriate authority - initiate a federal investigation into a violation of federal law. RICO, federal income tax, etc. Talk about Big Brother, big government, loss of personal rights and freedoms!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

All law enforcement agencies are not the same, nor do they have the same jurisdiction and powers. I don't want my local sheriff investigating me for income tax evasion - do you?

Turning someone over to a different jurisdiction when there is a want/warrant already out for their arrest is NOT the same thing as initiating an investigation into a possible violation of federal law by a local law enforcement agency who does not hold federal jurisdiction.

Currently, if a local cop suspects you of violating federal law, they contact the appropriate federal agency: US Marshal, FBI, etc. They do not do any investigation or arrests on that level independently.

Seriously - I find it simply terrifying that any local yahoo sheriff, any cop on the street in Chicago, or a one-horse town in Nebraska, etc could independently - without contacting the currently appropriate authority - initiate a federal investigation into a violation of federal law. RICO, federal income tax, etc. Talk about Big Brother, big government, loss of personal rights and freedoms!

this is untrue. if someone is stopped, they're found to be wanted, they're arrested and then turned over.

and i'm sorry, i'm not terrified at the thought of a sheriff, deputy, or other trained law enforcement officer with probable cause investigating a suspect. rico, federal income tax? lol when the irs starts issuing warrants because you evaded taxes, i'd imagine they'd appreciate the local law enforcement officer picking up anyone with an iou. you might not find this is a big deal, but for az, it is. they are stranded out there on the mexico border, and are dealing with this issue on a daily basis, and aren't getting any help from the feds, who are supposed to be taking care of this problem. but they aren't, so az is caught between a rock and a hard place.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

this is untrue. if someone is stopped, they're found to be wanted, they're arrested and then turned over.

You misunderstood what I said, which is true. You are blending two separate things together. Yes, if a want or warrant already exists, the appropriate federal (or other state, etc) department is contacted, and an arrest can be made by a local agency. But that warrant already exists - it was issued under the different department, or by the feds.

But a state or local agency does not initiate federal investigations on their own - they do not have the jurisdiction.

And yes, I would be very concerned about our federal government extending their reach and influence down into the local police department.

[Honu]

In Arizona per the new law it would be a state investigation now, the Feds can just hide and watch.