Red Sox tainted?

Gander · #1 07-31-2009, 10:09 AM

What do you guys think?
ESPN was coming down really hard on the Red Sox teams that won the WS in 2004 & 2007. Saying an asterisk should be applied.
Then Mike and Mike came on and said if thats the case there will be lots of asterisks. So where do you draw the line?

Clemens was a huge part in the Yankees 99 & 00 WS wins. Pettite pitched for them in all 4 WS wins. The A's won in 89 with Giambi & Canseco, the big bang brothers. What about the rest of the names not yet come out? Can they be players who played vital roles in team's championship runs?

Should it only be the Red Sox and nobody else? Isnt that kind of unfair and hypocritical?

-A very disgusted baseball fan

GBBob · #2 07-31-2009, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

What do you guys think?
ESPN was coming down really hard on the Red Sox teams that won the WS in 2004 & 2007. Saying an asterisk should be applied.
Then Mike and Mike came on and said if thats the case there will be lots of asterisks. So where do you draw the line?

Clemens was a huge part in the Yankees 99 & 00 WS wins. Pettite pitched for them in all 4 WS wins. The A's won in 89 with Giambi & Canseco, the big bang brothers. What about the rest of the names not yet come out? Can they be players who played vital roles in team's championship runs?

Should it only be the Red Sox and nobody else? Isnt that kind of unfair and hypocritical?

-A very disgusted baseball fan

Like you said..where do you start..or stop..

All I know is that Frank Thomas better get in the HOF and Giambi should forfeit his MVP trophy to him.

Scav · #3 07-31-2009, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBBob

Like you said..where do you start..or stop..

All I know is that Frank Thomas better get in the HOF and Giambi should forfeit his MVP trophy to him.

Frank Thomas will get into the HOF, you normally don't hear his name because he has been that big since he was 12

Antitrust32 · #4 07-31-2009, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav

Frank Thomas will get into the HOF, you normally don't hear his name because he has been that big since he was 12

i saw the unofficial full list of the 103 players... its on roto.. and Thomas was NOT on it. neither was Jim Thome

lots of bosox and lots of cubbies are on the list though. including Pedro.

docicu3 · #5 07-31-2009, 11:35 AM

Post the link if you can. I can't find that ROTO link.

Antitrust32 · #6 07-31-2009, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docicu3

Post the link if you can. I can't find that ROTO link.

I copied the players and emailed them to my dad yesterday here is the list..

1.Nomar Garciaparra
2.Manny Ramirez (Confirmed NY Times)
3.Johnny Damon
4.Trot Nixon
5.David Ortiz (Confirmed NY Times)
6.Shea Hillenbrand
7.Derek Lowe
8.Pedro Martinez
9.Brian Roberts
10.Jay Gibbons
11.Melvin Mora
12.Jerry Hairston
13.Jason Giambi
14.Alfonso Soriano
15.Raul Mondesi
16. Aaron Boone
17.Andy Pettitte
18.Jose Contreras
19.Roger Clemens
20.Carlos Delgado
21.Vernon Wells
22.Frank Catalanotto
23.Kenny Rogers
24.Magglio Ordonez
25.Sandy Alomar
26.Bartolo Colon
27.Brent Abernathy
28.Jose Lima
29.Milton Bradley
30.Casey Blake
31.Danys Baez
32.Craig Monroe
33.Dmitri Young
34.Alex Sanchez
35.Eric Chavez
36.Miguel Tejada
37.Eric Byrnes
38.Jose Guillen
39.Keith Foulke
40.Ricardo Rincon
41.Bret Boone
42.Mike Cameron
43.Randy Winn
44.Ryan Franklin
45.Freddy Garcia
46.Rafael Soriano
47.Scott Spiezio
48.Troy Glaus
49.Francisco Rodriguez
50.Ben Weber
51.Alex Rodriguez (Confirmed Selena Roberts)
52.Juan Gonzalez
53.Rafael Palmeiro
54.Carl Everett
55.Javy Lopez
56.Gary Sheffield
57.Mike Hampton
58.Ivan Rodriguez
59.Derrek Lee
60.Bobby Abreu
61.Terry Adams
62.Fernando Tatis
63.Livan Hernandez
64.Hector Almonte
65.Tony Armas
66.Dan Smith
67.Roberto Alomar
68.Cliff Floyd
69.Roger Cedeno
70.Jeromy Burnitz
71.Moises Alou
72.Sammy Sosa (Confirmed NY Times)
73.Corey Patterson
74.Carlos Zambrano
75.Mark Prior
76.Kerry Wood
77.Matt Clement
78.Antonio Alfonseca
79.Juan Cruz
80.Aramis Ramirez
81.Craig Wilson
82.Kris Benson
83.Richie Sexson
84.Geoff Jenkins
85.Valerio de los Santos
86.Benito Santiago
87.Rich Aurilia
88.Barry Bonds
89.Andres Galarraga
90.Jason Schmidt
91.Felix Rodriguez
92.Jason Christiansen
93.Matt Herges
94.Paul Lo Duca
95.Shawn Green
96.Oliver Perez
97.Adrian Beltre
98.Eric Gagne
99.Guillermo Mota
100.Luis Gonzalez
101.Todd Helton
102.Ryan Klesko
103.Gary Matthews

Danzig · #7 07-31-2009, 11:49 AM

since it can be argued that every team had using players-how much of an edge did the bosox really enjoy?

i still think it stinks that they used, but it seems a level playing field considering.

SCUDSBROTHER · #8 07-31-2009, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

What do you guys think?
ESPN was coming down really hard on the Red Sox teams that won the WS in 2004 & 2007. Saying an asterisk should be applied.
Then Mike and Mike came on and said if thats the case there will be lots of asterisks. So where do you draw the line?

Clemens was a huge part in the Yankees 99 & 00 WS wins. Pettite pitched for them in all 4 WS wins. The A's won in 89 with Giambi & Canseco, the big bang brothers. What about the rest of the names not yet come out? Can they be players who played vital roles in team's championship runs?

Should it only be the Red Sox and nobody else? Isnt that kind of unfair and hypocritical?

-A very disgusted baseball fan

Dude, how in the fck is baseball fair to begin with? It's not like they all have the same $$ to spend.

Antitrust32 · #9 07-31-2009, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

since it can be argued that every team had using players-how much of an edge did the bosox really enjoy?

i still think it stinks that they used, but it seems a level playing field considering.

I just want to point out that there is only one Phillie on the list.. Bobby Abreu (obvious roider). and the only current Phil on the list is the former BoSox cy young winner...

randallscott35 · #10 07-31-2009, 11:57 AM

Of course not, the asterix should be on records that are broken. If everyone was cheating at the same time, no one was cheating. The culture was drugs. But for home runs and other records, they are meaningless. The team that started this whole thing was the 93 Phillies it is well known. The entire team did them where as it was a few players on a team before that.

SCUDSBROTHER · #11 07-31-2009, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I copied the players and emailed them to my dad yesterday here is the list..

1.Nomar Garciaparra
2.Manny Ramirez (Confirmed NY Times)
3.Johnny Damon
4.Trot Nixon
5.David Ortiz (Confirmed NY Times)
6.Shea Hillenbrand
7.Derek Lowe
8.Pedro Martinez
9.Brian Roberts
10.Jay Gibbons
11.Melvin Mora
12.Jerry Hairston
13.Jason Giambi
14.Alfonso Soriano
15.Raul Mondesi
16. Aaron Boone
17.Andy Pettitte
18.Jose Contreras
19.Roger Clemens
20.Carlos Delgado
21.Vernon Wells
22.Frank Catalanotto
23.Kenny Rogers
24.Magglio Ordonez
25.Sandy Alomar
26.Bartolo Colon
27.Brent Abernathy
28.Jose Lima
29.Milton Bradley
30.Casey Blake
31.Danys Baez
32.Craig Monroe
33.Dmitri Young
34.Alex Sanchez
35.Eric Chavez
36.Miguel Tejada
37.Eric Byrnes
38.Jose Guillen
39.Keith Foulke
40.Ricardo Rincon
41.Bret Boone
42.Mike Cameron
43.Randy Winn
44.Ryan Franklin
45.Freddy Garcia
46.Rafael Soriano
47.Scott Spiezio
48.Troy Glaus
49.Francisco Rodriguez
50.Ben Weber
51.Alex Rodriguez (Confirmed Selena Roberts)
52.Juan Gonzalez
53.Rafael Palmeiro
54.Carl Everett
55.Javy Lopez
56.Gary Sheffield
57.Mike Hampton
58.Ivan Rodriguez
59.Derrek Lee
60.Bobby Abreu
61.Terry Adams
62.Fernando Tatis
63.Livan Hernandez
64.Hector Almonte
65.Tony Armas
66.Dan Smith
67.Roberto Alomar
68.Cliff Floyd
69.Roger Cedeno
70.Jeromy Burnitz
71.Moises Alou
72.Sammy Sosa (Confirmed NY Times)
73.Corey Patterson
74.Carlos Zambrano
75.Mark Prior
76.Kerry Wood
77.Matt Clement
78.Antonio Alfonseca
79.Juan Cruz
80.Aramis Ramirez
81.Craig Wilson
82.Kris Benson
83.Richie Sexson
84.Geoff Jenkins
85.Valerio de los Santos
86.Benito Santiago
87.Rich Aurilia
88.Barry Bonds
89.Andres Galarraga
90.Jason Schmidt
91.Felix Rodriguez
92.Jason Christiansen
93.Matt Herges
94.Paul Lo Duca
95.Shawn Green
96.Oliver Perez
97.Adrian Beltre
98.Eric Gagne
99.Guillermo Mota
100.Luis Gonzalez
101.Todd Helton
102.Ryan Klesko
103.Gary Matthews

Little surprised to see Shawn Green on there, but I would imagine Lo Duca was pimping it pretty hard to most anybody.

Gaelic Storm · #12 07-31-2009, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

What do you guys think?
ESPN was coming down really hard on the Red Sox teams that won the WS in 2004 & 2007. Saying an asterisk should be applied.
Then Mike and Mike came on and said if thats the case there will be lots of asterisks. So where do you draw the line?

Clemens was a huge part in the Yankees 99 & 00 WS wins. Pettite pitched for them in all 4 WS wins. The A's won in 89 with Giambi & Canseco, the big bang brothers. What about the rest of the names not yet come out? Can they be players who played vital roles in team's championship runs?

Should it only be the Red Sox and nobody else? Isnt that kind of unfair and hypocritical?

-A very disgusted baseball fan

So far Papi has received the soft touch compared to Arod. I am willing to wager that what ever he says in his press conference everyone will believe unlike Arod.

It should not be a suprise to anyone. Lou Merloni said the Red Sox had doctors come into spring training and show the team how to use steroids properly.

A World Series winning team in the steroid era had players that used seroids what a shock.

timmgirvan · #13 07-31-2009, 12:49 PM

until they get the players union to ease up on proecting the users...2003 and beyond means nothing!

Gander · #14 07-31-2009, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

until they get the players union to ease up on proecting the users...2003 and beyond means nothing!

And 1990 through 2002 means something?
You think Roger Clemens didnt help the Yankess win twice?

dalakhani · #15 07-31-2009, 12:57 PM

Does Pedro Martinez belong in the hall of fame? Roger Clemens?

King Glorious · #16 07-31-2009, 01:00 PM

I put any player that was among the most dominant of their era up for consideration. For me, they both go in as do Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, and Rodriguez.

SniperSB23 · #17 07-31-2009, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Little surprised to see Shawn Green on there, but I would imagine Lo Duca was pimping it pretty hard to most anybody.

I'm not surprised by Green. Only one I'm even slightly surprised by is Robbie Alomar.

King Glorious · #18 07-31-2009, 01:08 PM

Bartolo Colon would be one that would surprise me. Just his body alone would not give the impression that he cares too much and he never struck me as the type that was overpowering like a Clemens or Pedro Martinez, although Andy Pettitte isn't either.

dalakhani · #19 07-31-2009, 01:20 PM

Ortiz response:

"Today I was informed by a reporter that I was on the 2003 list of MLB players to test positive for performance-enhancing substances. This happened right before our game, and the news blindsided me.

"I want to talk about this situation and I will as soon as I have more answers. In the meantime I want to let you know how I am approaching this situation. One, I have already contacted the Players Association to confirm if this report is true. I have just been told that the report is true. Based on the way I have lived my life, I am surprised to learn I tested positive.

"Two, I will find out what I tested positive for. And, three, based on whatever I learn, I will share this information with my club and the public. You know me -- I will not hide and I will not make excuses."

So let me get this straight. He is basically saying that he will admit to whatever he got caught for doing. LOL

timmgirvan · #20 07-31-2009, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

And 1990 through 2002 means something?
You think Roger Clemens didnt help the Yankess win twice?

we can talk 'ad nausem' about this subject, but remember that while attendance soared and personal fortunes were made...the only ones who got boned were the fans who believed in the players and their teams.