NY Task Force on Racehorse Health & Safety Report, Reccos

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Oh that's right, I forgot that you already know everything about the subject and all us trainers are just too biased to discuss it.

You make statements like "Lower level horses dont run as much as they used to" and I am supposed to take that as proof that somehow "drugs" are the chief cause ignoring all of the other changes that have occured in the game?

The irony of your "impossible to discuss drugs with trainers" insult is that you come off as a typical internet troll who would rather gossip with other likeminded rumor mongers as opposed to trying to educate yourself on the topic. Suit yourself but people who are willing to not look at other points of view especially coming from trainers who you know are credible on the subject and have a far greater knowledge base are as much of a problem in this sport as the issues themselves.

I am probably as conservative in use of meds as most trainers but understand that racehorses have plenty of issues that must be dealt with especially with the lower level type of horses with which I often have in my barn. There are several owners here that could attest to that. This topic is so warped in the publics view because of misinformation and false innuendo that is taken as fact. Congrats on following the company line. I'm interested in finding out after all is said and done and this big crackdown on "drugs" fails to stem the tide on all the negative trends in the sport what will you blame then?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

As for the drug thing, did you notice nobody here posted the Bloodhorse article about 2yo horses racing without Lasix? I'm quite sure you didn't miss it. Turns out a very small percentage of those horses showed the slightest trace of bleeding.

Using a diagnostic methodology that misses all bleeding but that severe enough to be visible grossly to the naked eye.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Yeah Chuck you made an awesome case again. That guy is a complete lack of talent hair brain, probably doesnt bet or even follow racing much.

BTW if you double up on the adequan and the Clen in Pa. they will never catch you. Clen works really well and that adequan mixed in with some steriods bute and "canes" is a terrific cocktail.

For a smart guy he seems to take what is written in the racing media which for the most part is a credible as Pravda as fact when much of it is actually propaganda.

Racing in PA is over till next year now that the "historic" PA Derby/Cotillion card is in the rear view mirror.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

This all started because I mentioned about using clenbuterol every day without knowing for sure it would be beneficial.

That statement above doesn't have much basis in truth, yet you state it, as if it is.

Your constant insult of those that know more than you is beyond tiresome. You should listen to Chuck. Believe me, you'd learn something about horses and drugs.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

That statement above doesn't have much basis in truth, yet you state it, as if it is.

Your constant insult of those that know more than you is beyond tiresome. You should listen to Chuck. Believe me, you'd learn something about horses and drugs.

I will say that you are the only person here that questioned the report. The consensus, even among those skeptical like Steve Crist, is that the study was well done and the report unbiased. I mean, even Chuck said he stopped doing it because it didn't do anything positive.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I will say that you are the only person here that questioned the report. The consensus, even among those skeptical like Steve Crist, is that the study was well done and the report unbiased. I mean, even Chuck said he stopped doing it because it didn't do anything positive.

I did not question the report. Your statement was generalized, and not an accurate reflection of what we know about clenbuterol. That was my point.

You have demonstrated a repeated inability to read sentences, and glean an accurate meaning, without veering off into assumption. For example, your not understanding how your obvious insult to all horse trainers could possibly offend Chuck.

Just. Stop.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

I did not question the report. Your statement was generalized, and not an accurate reflection of what we know about clenbuterol. That was my point.

You have demonstrated a repeated inability to read sentences, and glean an accurate meaning, without veering off into assumption. For example, your not understanding how your obvious insult to all horse trainers could possibly offend Chuck.

Just. Stop.

How can a supposed vet possibly condone giving clenbuterol to a horse every day without even knowing if there was a benefit? And according to the report there isn't, though some negatives were cited. Oh wait, to pad your income, right?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Riot

I did not question the report. Your statement was generalized, and not an accurate reflection of what we know about clenbuterol. That was my point.

You have demonstrated a repeated inability to read sentences, and glean an accurate meaning, without veering off into assumption. For example, your not understanding how your obvious insult to all horse trainers could possibly offend Chuck.

Just. Stop.

I tell you what I know about Clenbuterol, the biggest cheats in the game use it daily and without question it is used to enhance horses ability to run faster. Now they all bleed and they all suffer from hay and dirt in their lungs.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

How can a supposed vet possibly condone giving clenbuterol to a horse every day without even knowing if there was a benefit?

I am not a "supposed" vet, I am a licensed, practicing veterinarian - but your insult attempt at my bonafides to question you is noted. As was your dismissal of Chuck as "can't talk to horse trainers".

I did not question the report. I did not say I condone giving clenbuterol to a horse every day. Don't lie about what I said.

What I said is that your statement about "not even knowing if there was a benefit " is superficial, shallow, generalized, and doesn't reflect what more knowledgable people than you do know about clenbuterol.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

How can a supposed vet possibly condone giving clenbuterol to a horse every day without even knowing if there was a benefit? And according to the report there isn't, though some negatives were cited. Oh wait, to pad your income, right?

Ask Todd Pletcher if he is willing to train your regally bred 500k 2 year old BUT he can ONLY use Clenbuterol IF the horse ehibits certain criteria for its use. LOL NEXT

[Riot]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I tell you what I know about Clenbuterol, the biggest cheats in the game use it daily and without question it is used to enhance horses ability to run faster. Now they all bleed and they all suffer from hay and dirt in their lungs.

The biggest cheats in the game do a lot of stuff to horses in an attempt to get them to run faster. As I said, there are a whole lot of gullible people out there, and more than enough old wives tales and enablers to keep the conspiracy loons searching for the next magical miracle bullet.

They are cheats - not rocket scientists.

They are cheats - not good horse trainers.

They are cheats - not medical professionals.

They don't cheat because they are smart.

As Chuck has already pointed out, 95% of drug overages, the ones some of the public gets freaked out about, is due to microscopic overages of daily therapeutic medications in amounts that could never affect performance in a million years. Let's just keep that reality in mind.

[Riot]

If you are in Lexington in Tuesday (tomorrow), you may want to stop by and learn something:


Tuesday, October 2nd — 4:00 pm

Furosemide and EIPH: Efficacy and Controversy: The American Horsemen’s Story.

Thomas Tobin, MVB, MSc, PhD, MRCVS, DABT
Professor, Department of Veterinary Science, Gluck Equine Research Center
Professor, Graduate Center for Toxicology
University of Kentucky

Veterinarians seeking Continuing Education credits must sign the CE book and request their CE certificate at the time of the seminar.

Auditorium of the Gluck Equine Research Center

-- refreshments will be provided --



*************************

Diane Furry

Gluck Equine Research Center

Department of Veterinary Science

University of Kentucky

Lexington, KY 40546-0099

(859) 218-1117

dfurry1@uky.edu

[Dahoss]

Well....it was a good conversation and like others, I enjoyed it.

Not so much anymore.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

What I said is that your statement about "not even knowing if there was a benefit " is superficial, shallow, generalized, and doesn't reflect what more knowledgable people than you do know about clenbuterol.

What a crock of bull. It either has benefits from using it every day, or it doesn't. The report says it doesn't and can cause harm. What say you?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

If you are in Lexington in Tuesday (tomorrow), you may want to stop by and learn something:

I already learned that hardly any of the 2yo horses that raced without Lasix this year showed any trace of EIPH. That is far below 97%.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Riot

If you are in Lexington in Tuesday (tomorrow), you may want to stop by and learn something:


Tuesday, October 2nd — 4:00 pm

Furosemide and EIPH: Efficacy and Controversy: The American Horsemen’s Story.

Thomas Tobin, MVB, MSc, PhD, MRCVS, DABT
Professor, Department of Veterinary Science, Gluck Equine Research Center
Professor, Graduate Center for Toxicology
University of Kentucky

Veterinarians seeking Continuing Education credits must sign the CE book and request their CE certificate at the time of the seminar.

Auditorium of the Gluck Equine Research Center

-- refreshments will be provided --



*************************

Diane Furry

Gluck Equine Research Center

Department of Veterinary Science

University of Kentucky

Lexington, KY 40546-0099

(859) 218-1117

dfurry1@uky.edu

Let me guess..all the vets are going to tell each other how well a 40 year old diarectic works and how they know it doesnt do any harm nor does it increase a horses abilty to run better BUT every single friggin horse in ever friggin state will be injected with it daily.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

What a crock of bull. It either has benefits from using it every day, or it doesn't. The report says it doesn't and can cause harm. What say you?

I say it doesn't help the sport to repeatedly read comments about drugs in horse racing that are shallow, superficial and unbiased by empirical reality.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

I say it doesn't help the sport to repeatedly read comments about drugs in horse racing that are shallow, superficial and unbiased by empirical reality.

Duck. So you do disgree with the report. And, by the way, that wasn't "media" written.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Duck. So you do disgree with the report. And, by the way, that wasn't "media" written.

Nope. I didn't say that. What I have already said to you, posts ago, was, "I did not question the report."

Continue talking to the empty chair containing the imaginary Riot saying imaginary things ... I'll just watch you continue to prove my point (and Chucks point too) - thanks. Have a great day.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

Nope. I didn't say that. What I have already said to you, posts ago, was, "I did not question the report."

Continue talking to the empty chair containing the imaginary Riot saying imaginary things ... I'll just watch you continue to prove my point (and Chucks point too) - thanks. Have a great day.

Lets keep this simple. What are your thoughts on using clenbuterol ever day?