would quality road have beat zen in the b.c. - Page 3

cakes44 · #41 02-17-2010, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smuthg

Not knocking Rachel, but I believe she (to stay in line with the theme) "let it all hang out" to holdoff Macho Again in the Woodward. We've ever seen Zenyatta really do anything more that what it takes to win...

So what would it take for people of this opinion to think that Zenyatta is fully extended in a race? Start her move after 4f and continue it to the wire?

I'm looking forward to her "only doing what it takes to win" and losing.

Revidere · #42 02-17-2010, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Getting beat one length by a Belmont and Travers winner - and running a 110 Beyer is no great disgrace.

Didn't she beat same Belmont, Travers, JCGC winner by 3 lengths?

Don't give me the surface. He ran his race. She was just better.

NTamm1215 · #43 02-17-2010, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revidere

Didn't she beat same Belmont, Travers, JCGC winner by 3 lengths?

Don't give me the surface. He ran his race. She was just better.

A horse like Summer Bird who does not really have a strong turn of foot is at a huge disadvantage on the Pro-Ride. He's at his best when he can gallop horses into the ground, he's a grinder. The Pro-Ride works against him in a huge way as it is a surface where horses who can wind up and make one powerful run are at their best.

Count me among those who wouldn't be surprised by a different result if a healthy Summer Bird and Zenyatta met at 10fs on a dirt track.

NT

Danzig · #44 02-17-2010, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revidere

Didn't she beat same Belmont, Travers, JCGC winner by 3 lengths?

Don't give me the surface. He ran his race. She was just better.

don't give you the surface? you can't ignore it or pretend it's equal to dirt, or that some horses don't like it better than others.

Revidere · #45 02-17-2010, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

don't give you the surface? you can't ignore it or pretend it's equal to dirt, or that some horses don't like it better than others.

I'm not pretending or ignoring. In what way did he display a dislike for the surface? He ran real well.

Danzig · #46 02-17-2010, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revidere

I'm not pretending or ignoring. In what way did he display a dislike for the surface? He ran real well.

not saying he disliked it. but zenyatta obviously loves it. and there's no telling how they'd do on dirt. maybe she'd still beat him, maybe she wouldn't. i don't think just by them facing off on synthetic that you can say with surety what would occur.

The Bid · #47 02-17-2010, 04:30 PM

I would say she handled it okay if she beat Ginger Punch by 8 by Oaklawn as easy as she wanted. Not bad when you beat up on a mare like that who banked over 3 million and won 6 or 7 G1s

Danzig · #48 02-17-2010, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bid

I would say she handled it okay if she beat Ginger Punch by 8 by Oaklawn as easy as she wanted. Not bad when you beat up on a mare like that who banked over 3 million and won 6 or 7 G1s

i thought the discussion was about whether she could beat QR or summer bird on dirt? the answer is, who knows?

Antitrust32 · #49 02-17-2010, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bid

I would say she handled it okay if she beat Ginger Punch by 8 by Oaklawn as easy as she wanted. Not bad when you beat up on a mare like that who banked over 3 million and won 6 or 7 G1s

you have to be joking about Ginger Punch... she was the most overrated but useful horse in my lifetime... made a ton of money by beating slow horses in slow races, but she wasnt anything special.

Revidere · #50 02-17-2010, 05:23 PM

It's certainly difficult to argue with a point made with such clarity and conviction.

SCUDSBROTHER · #51 02-17-2010, 05:27 PM

Z's trainer has never liked synthetic surfaces. Z (and her trainer) disliked the surface at Del Mar. Fact is that she looked the most comfortable when she ran on the dirt at Oaklawn. Her trainer has a Derby Win at Churchill (backed up by a decent 4th in the BC Classic at Churchill.) I would not assume she was at her best on the Pro Ride. That's wishful thinking. This is still a guy who prefers training for dirt racing. Careful what you wish for.

The Bid · #52 02-18-2010, 07:42 AM

Wish I had one that wasn't special and made 3.5 million winning 6 G1s

Antitrust32 · #53 02-18-2010, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bid

Wish I had one that wasn't special and made 3.5 million winning 6 G1s

for some reason I KNEW that was coming!

no crap we'd all love to have 3.5 mil with a solid, consistent, but slow mare who beat a bunch of crap.

I swear she won a 1 1/8th G1 race once in like 1:54

The Indomitable DrugS · #54 02-18-2010, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bid

I would say she handled it okay if she beat Ginger Punch by 8 by Oaklawn as easy as she wanted. Not bad when you beat up on a mare like that who banked over 3 million and won 6 or 7 G1s

Ginger Punch didn't fire at all that day ... and even on a good day she had very moderate ability.

Brownie Points was 2nd in that race. The same Brownie Points who is 1 for her last 7 in dirt races ... and that one win coming at Praire Meadows.

Even worse than that - stablemate Tiago ran the same day - and that bum was markedly more impressive.

Thunder Gulch · #55 02-18-2010, 09:05 AM

I don't think QR was ready to run his best race that day, and I don't know if he would have handled the surface. Any dirt track in America, yes.

The Bid · #56 02-18-2010, 09:31 AM

Then I need a moderate one to make me 3.5 million. Anytime you beat a horse by 8 in hand thats won 6 G1 you are at the top of your business. Quality Road hasn't beaten anything at all. He ran off the screen against a bunch of zeros. He lost to Summer Bird twice, do you think Zenyatta would beat him? I think she would drill his ass, in fact she did. He finished behind superstars like Hold me Back, Theregoesjojo.

Zenyatta has finished behind none, and until she finishes behind one, shes where its at. Regardless of her figures, her surface, whatever argument anybody has...The fact is shes never been beaten. The only thing going thats goign to beat her right now is Mike Smith. He has tried his best on multiple occasions.

I guess we can make an argument that Summer Bird lost to Rachel by 6. Summerbird beat QR by 1 and 3.5. Zenyatta beat Summerbird 5 and he was up and down like a 15 dollar BJ. That would put R and Z in the same catagory, although I would argue Zenyatta is better than Rachel, or was last year. QR is not even in the same zipcode. I think thats accurate of the 3 horses we have mentioned. We have two filly/mares for the ages, and one pretty good older horse running against zeros.

Sure QR has a right to get better, and he would need to run that huge race back against either of the aforementioned to be in the ballgame

NTamm1215 · #57 02-18-2010, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

for some reason I KNEW that was coming!

no crap we'd all love to have 3.5 mil with a solid, consistent, but slow mare who beat a bunch of crap.

I swear she won a 1 1/8th G1 race once in like 1:54

At odds of 1/5 she found a gap in mid-stretch of the 2008 Go For Wand to win in an eye-popping 1:53.43. She beat some superstars that day like Copper State, Indescribable, Moon Catcher, and Runway Rosie.

NT

The Indomitable DrugS · #58 02-18-2010, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bid

Then I need a moderate one to make me 3.5 million. Anytime you beat a horse by 8 in hand thats won 6 G1 you are at the top of your business. Quality Road hasn't beaten anything at all. He ran off the screen against a bunch of zeros. He lost to Summer Bird twice, do you think Zenyatta would beat him? I think she would drill his ass. He finished behind superstars like Hold me Back, Theregoesjojo.

Zenyatta has finished behind none, and until she finishes behind one, shes where its at. Regardless of her figures, her surface, whatever argument anybody has...The fact is shes never been beaten. The only thing going thats goign to beat her right now is Mike Smith. He has tried his best on multiple occasions.

I guess we can make an argument that Summer Bird lost to Rachel by 6. Summerbird beat QR by 1 and 3.5. Zenyatta beat Summerbird 5 and he was up and down like a 15 dollar BJ. That would put R and Z in the same catagory, although I would argue Zenyatta is better than Rachel, or was last year. QR is not even in the same zipcode. I think thats accurate of the 3 horses we have mentioned. We have two filly/mares for the ages, and one pretty good older horse running against zeros.

You're saying so much that runs dead contrary to sound handicapping it isn't even funny.

If Rachel Alexandra returns from the long layoff in similar fashion to how you've returned from your posting layoff ... she will not only get crushed in the Apple Blossom .. but the bridgejumpers will lose a fortune in that manufactured prep race she is supposed to have at FG in March.

The Bid · #59 02-18-2010, 09:45 AM

I needed one

Im real sound handicapping. Those performance lines don't lie drugs. Thats just what hes beat, and what shes beat. Shes beaten everything, hes gotten beat by Summerbird twice, convincingly twice. How can she not get the nod over that one at the very least. He ran off the screen against zeros. What part of that is untrue?

VOL JACK · #60 02-18-2010, 10:30 AM

The first time summer Bird beat QR...QR had one 6.5f prep.
The second time was a very fair contest except for they were meeting on a sloppy track once again.
I dont think a horse could be better bred or have a better style for the slop than summer bird...which makes RA Haskell all the more impressive.