Howard Baker passes

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by jms62

Speaking of extremists

http://www.alternet.org/belief/why-d...you?page=0%2C0

That article is complete nonsense. What a joke! The author thinks that every time a Christian claims that their religious freedom is being suppressed that it is a lie. I will quote him. Here is how he categorizes each case when the victim is Christian. Notice how he starts each sentence by simply claiming that each thing is a lie:

"Tell a lie about how a sergeant was persecuted for simply holding that religious belief to paint yourself as the “real” victim".

"Tell lies about how kids are being punished for having private prayers all to themselves."

"Spread a false tale claiming that people aren’t allowed private ownership of religious cards."

Now if a non-Christian is discriminated against in any way, it is almost definitely true. But if a Christian is discriminated against, it is definitely a lie, and just a ploy on the part of the Christian to impose his views on others. That sounds like a credible argument. LOL. Does this guy have any idea how ridiculous he sounds? Why would any publication even print something so absurd?

These liberal clowns have no shame. Any time something happens that hurts their narrative, they will just claim that the event never happened, that it was a lie. Many in the liberal media claimed that "The Knockout Game" doesn't exist. Now that it's all over the news and several police departments are talking about it, it's getting pretty hard for these clowns to keep denying that the game exists. These same clowns claim there is no voter fraud. Anyone with a brain knows that in any type of competition where money is involved, whether it's horseracing, cycling, baseball, politics, etc. that people will try to cheat. It's just a fact of life.

The shocking thing about it is that many people (mainly democrats) believe Obama and Holder when they say that the purpose of having voters show ID is to disenfranchise people. How could anybody believe this? How could anybody be against having to show ID when you vote? It's the only way to ensure legitimate elections. But Obama and Holder will tell you that there is no reason to show your ID when you vote.

I have a friend who is a liberal democrat and he is in his 60s and he believes what Obama and Holder say about voter fraud. He thinks it doesn't exist and any efforts to ask people for ID is simply a way to disenfranchise people. This friend of mine has listened to these liberal talking points for so long that he believes them. And this guy is a smart guy. It's incredible. Showing ID is about as likely to disenfranchise a legitimate voter as showing ID will stop a legitimate American traveler from getting on a plane. Nobody has a problem showing ID.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

That article is complete nonsense. What a joke! The author thinks that every time a Christian claims that their religious freedom is being suppressed that it is a lie. I will quote him. Here is how he categorizes each case when the victim is Christian. Notice how he starts each sentence by simply claiming that each thing is a lie:

"Tell a lie about how a sergeant was persecuted for simply holding that religious belief to paint yourself as the “real” victim".

"Tell lies about how kids are being punished for having private prayers all to themselves."

"Spread a false tale claiming that people aren’t allowed private ownership of religious cards."

Now if a non-Christian is discriminated against in any way, it is almost definitely true. But if a Christian is discriminated against, it is definitely a lie, and just a ploy on the part of the Christian to impose his views on others. That sounds like a credible argument. LOL. Does this guy have any idea how ridiculous he sounds? Why would any publication even print something so absurd?

These liberal clowns have no shame. Any time something happens that hurts their narrative, they will just claim that the event never happened, that it was a lie. Many in the liberal media claimed that "The Knockout Game" doesn't exist. Now that it's all over the news and several police departments are talking about it, it's getting pretty hard for these clowns to keep denying that the game exists. These same clowns claim there is no voter fraud. Anyone with a brain knows that in any type of competition where money is involved, whether it's horseracing, cycling, baseball, politics, etc. that people will try to cheat. It's just a fact of life.

The shocking thing about it is that many people (mainly democrats) believe Obama and Holder when they say that the purpose of having voters show ID is to disenfranchise people. How could anybody believe this? How could anybody be against having to show ID when you vote? It's the only way to ensure legitimate elections. But Obama and Holder will tell you that there is no reason to show your ID when you vote.

I have a friend who is a liberal democrat and he is in his 60s and he believes what Obama and Holder say about voter fraud. He thinks it doesn't exist and any efforts to ask people for ID is simply a way to disenfranchise people. This friend of mine has listened to these liberal talking points for so long that he believes them. And this guy is a smart guy. It's incredible. Showing ID is about as likely to disenfranchise a legitimate voter as showing ID will stop a legitimate American traveler from getting on a plane. Nobody has a problem showing ID.

[Rudeboyelvis]

I stand corrected - Byk had it 100% right the first time. The responses to the OP's initial post in this abortion of a thread are precisely why this room should have stayed extinguished. It's microcosmic example of why we can't have nice things

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

I stand corrected - Byk had it 100% right the first time. The responses to the OP's initial post in this abortion of a thread are precisely why this room should have stayed extinguished. It's microcosmic example of why we can't have nice things

I would hardly call this thread an abortion, as it is continuing.

I don't think anyone takes any of it all that seriously. The real shouters have been gone for some time; I don't ever get angry about anything I'm responding to. And y'all often post links to things I'd have missed reading about, otherwise. As for me, I need a board to distract me from how bad my handicapping is sucking this year.

[Danzig]

what christian has been discriminated against due to his religion?

and what's a religious card?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Danzig

what christian has been discriminated against due to his religion?

and what's a religious card?

If you do an internet search you can find tons of christians being discriminated against due to their religion. Here is one example out of thousands:

3) California Christians Found “Not Guilty” of Reading Bible Near Government Offices:"A court has said that a pair of Christians were ‘allowed’ to read the Bible aloud outside the Department of Motor Vehicles in Hemet, California. Wasn’t it kind of the government courts in California to say that these Christians were allowed to have their rights to free religious expression? ...Back in 2011 Mark Mackey and Bret Coronado were arrested and charged with misdemeanor offenses for reading the Bible outside the DMV location. ... But on August 13, Superior Court Judge Timothy Freer found the men ‘not guilty’ of any offenses. ...Interestingly, the judge also pointed out that the law prosecutors tried to invoke was likely unconstitutional as it gave law enforcement overbroad powers to quash public gatherings in the first place. Sadly, this case did not go toward settling the constitutionality of the law, but it was a victory of sorts to have the judge even mention the fact."

Yes, there were actually Americans arrested for reading the Bible on public property. What do you think the chances are that two Muslims reading the Quran would have been arrested under the same circumstances?

http://townhall.com/columnists/johnh...1966/page/full

I don't necessarily agree that all the other examples on this site are legitimate examples of discrimination but I think the one that I posted definitely is.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

If you do an internet search you can find tons of christians being discriminated against due to their religion. Here is one example out of thousands:

3) California Christians Found “Not Guilty” of Reading Bible Near Government Offices:"A court has said that a pair of Christians were ‘allowed’ to read the Bible aloud outside the Department of Motor Vehicles in Hemet, California. Wasn’t it kind of the government courts in California to say that these Christians were allowed to have their rights to free religious expression? ...Back in 2011 Mark Mackey and Bret Coronado were arrested and charged with misdemeanor offenses for reading the Bible outside the DMV location. ... But on August 13, Superior Court Judge Timothy Freer found the men ‘not guilty’ of any offenses. ...Interestingly, the judge also pointed out that the law prosecutors tried to invoke was likely unconstitutional as it gave law enforcement overbroad powers to quash public gatherings in the first place. Sadly, this case did not go toward settling the constitutionality of the law, but it was a victory of sorts to have the judge even mention the fact."

Yes, there were actually Americans arrested for reading the Bible on public property. What do you think the chances are that two Muslims reading the Quran would have been arrested under the same circumstances?

http://townhall.com/columnists/johnh...1966/page/full

I don't necessarily agree that all the other examples on this site are legitimate examples of discrimination but I think the one that I posted definitely is.

Another unbiased article there Robert? According to you only liberals are brainwashed by the media. Im sure the police report said "arrested for reading the bible". Any chance whatsoever that they just happened to be reading the bible while commiting another crime? For you to insinuate that Christians are routinely discriminated against in this country is patently absurd.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by jms62

Another unbiased article there Robert? According to you only liberals are brainwashed by the media. Im sure the police report said "arrested for reading the bible". Any chance whatsoever that they just happened to be reading the bible while commiting another crime? For you to insinuate that Christians are routinely discriminated against in this country is patently absurd.

I took Rupert's advice and googled those two gentlemen, and Town Hall, unsurprisingly, is not telling the whole story. Those guys weren't "reading aloud," they were preaching Bible verses at people lined up outside the DMV. In other words, they were taking advantage of a captive audience to prosthelytize. Here in NYC, we deal with subway preachers all the time, who enter a car, and start shouting Bible stuff at us, and let me tell you, Rupert, they are annoying as f*ck. If I'd been standing on line at that DMV I would have been pissed as all get out that an already stressful experience was further shat upon by two guys who felt it was their religious calling to preach at me while I stood in line to get my d*mn picture taken.

But, as articles on the subject point out, the case was dismissed for insufficient evidence. Legally, Christians are allowed to annoy the living daylights out of innocent passersby by shouting at them, and they take full advantage of it. Of the many, many times I have been prosthelytized at (to), I can count exactly one person who was not Christian (a taxi driver who was Muslim, almost 20 years ago).

[jms62]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

I took Rupert's advice and googled those two gentlemen, and Town Hall, unsurprisingly, is not telling the whole story. Those guys weren't "reading aloud," they were preaching Bible verses at people lined up outside the DMV. In other words, they were taking advantage of a captive audience to prosthelytize. Here in NYC, we deal with subway preachers all the time, who enter a car, and start shouting Bible stuff at us, and let me tell you, Rupert, they are annoying as f*ck. If I'd been standing on line at that DMV I would have been pissed as all get out that an already stressful experience was further shat upon by two guys who felt it was their religious calling to preach at me while I stood in line to get my d*mn picture taken.

But, as articles on the subject point out, the case was dismissed for insufficient evidence. Legally, Christians are allowed to annoy the living daylights out of innocent passersby by shouting at them, and they take full advantage of it. Of the many, many times I have been prosthelytized at (to), I can count exactly one person who was not Christian (a taxi driver who was Muslim, almost 20 years ago).

Disturbing the peace and probably refused to leave which would be tresspassing.
Arrested for reading the bible, utter bullshit. Anyone reading that article and believing it sight unseen really should never be accusing anyone of being brainwashed.

[GenuineRisk]

While I'm at it (seeing as how I'm sick in bed anyway today), let me google the rest of the examples on the Town Hall site.

1: Florida ministry told to choose between Jesus and helping the poor: No. The ministry was violating USDA rules by taking federally provided food/funds and then prosthelytizing to the recipients. They were violating the separation of church and state. The USDA said they could continue to distribute food; just not in areas where there was religious imagery. This should more accurately be titled, "Florida ministry decides prosthelytizing more important than feeding needy."
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/09...-groups/195830

2: Billy Graham claims organization was "targeted" by the IRS. In 2010 the IRS informed his ministry it was reviewing their receipts because of concerns they were crossing the no-electioneering line. This is a line many, many churches cross, and they do it with seeming impunity. So, they get to campaign and still don't pay taxes. I don't see how the IRS investigating whether a public figure who has lots of political opinions and doesn't pay taxes on his very wealthy church is a big deal. Nothing came of it, just as it didn't for the Texas church that told its congregants to "Vote for the Mormon; not the Muslim." It's still not paying taxes, either.

3: Already addressed.

4: Colorado Bakery, wedding cake, same-sex couple, blah blah blah. We've already talked about this in other threads. If you are going to sell items in the public marketplace, you may not discriminate against customers based on certain things, including sexual orientation. The baker announced his bakery will no longer make wedding cakes at all. That's his right. I give him a year before he caves because wedding cakes are $$$.

5: Airforce Veteran faces a court martial for opposing gay marriage. No.
http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2013/0...-reassignment/

6: Government forces church to get permits for baptisms. Oh good grief. The Town Hall bit ends by saying that the Parks Department changed their mind and said permits weren't needed for baptisms. So, no. As for the part about the Missouri park temporarily requiring 48 hour permit notification- in NYC, if you're going to have more than 20 people at a Park gathering (no matter what it's for) you have to apply for a permit THREE WEEKS in advance. Don't talk to me about permits in Parks. Missouri Baptists have it easy.

7:Florida professor demands student stomp on Jesus: No. This is the hardest one to clarify, as stories vary on exactly what happened in the class, but it is true that the exercise was voluntary and did not demand that students "stomp" on Jesus.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/me...blisher-93174/

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendl...tomp-on-jesus/

(The second one is a blog post, so it's highly opinionated, but it includes the textbook assignment, where it's clear it's not instructing "stomp on Jesus.")

So, seven examples, seven nos.

TL DR - None of the Town Hall citations are examples of discrimination.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

I took Rupert's advice and googled those two gentlemen, and Town Hall, unsurprisingly, is not telling the whole story. Those guys weren't "reading aloud," they were preaching Bible verses at people lined up outside the DMV. In other words, they were taking advantage of a captive audience to prosthelytize. Here in NYC, we deal with subway preachers all the time, who enter a car, and start shouting Bible stuff at us, and let me tell you, Rupert, they are annoying as f*ck. If I'd been standing on line at that DMV I would have been pissed as all get out that an already stressful experience was further shat upon by two guys who felt it was their religious calling to preach at me while I stood in line to get my d*mn picture taken.

But, as articles on the subject point out, the case was dismissed for insufficient evidence. Legally, Christians are allowed to annoy the living daylights out of innocent passersby by shouting at them, and they take full advantage of it. Of the many, many times I have been prosthelytized at (to), I can count exactly one person who was not Christian (a taxi driver who was Muslim, almost 20 years ago).

I don't condone obnoxious and aggressive public preaching. But I don't have any problem with a person doing it in a quiet, calm, and non-confrontational way.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by jms62

Another unbiased article there Robert? According to you only liberals are brainwashed by the media. Im sure the police report said "arrested for reading the bible". Any chance whatsoever that they just happened to be reading the bible while commiting another crime? For you to insinuate that Christians are routinely discriminated against in this country is patently absurd.

I don't think liberals are the only ones brainwashed by the media. There are some conservatives out there that take everything Rush Limbaugh says as gospel. The problem with these totally partisan sources, whether liberal or conservative, is that they usually only give you half the truth. And when you only hear one side of the story, it's going to be very difficult to have a truly informed opinion. That is why I always try to hear both sides of every argument.

With regard to that specific story we were talking about, I highly doubt they were committing another crime while reading the bible. The judge in the case specifically said that the law prosecutors tried to invoke was likely unconstitutional as it gave law enforcement overbroad powers to quash public gatherings in the first place.

[Danzig]

so much for all this....