Social Inclusion -- what would you do?

[letswastemoney]

Maybe a new trainer would help. But I don't think they'll ever take him away from Azpura.

[Jay Frederick]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

Maybe a new trainer would help. But I don't think they'll ever take him away from Azpura.

Why a new trainer? It's not the first time I have read this and am trying to figure out what his current trainer has done wrong that would lead people to suggest changing trainers.

[LARHAGE]

I think someone like Monty Roberts would be a good idea, I had a horse that was terrified of trailers and refused to load, hired a guy like Monty and that horse not only loaded, but never hesitated again, sometimes the more you fight them, the worse they become and they start to anticipate the ordeal, he needs a big step back before they ruin him forever, you can change their perceptions of their fear, but you need someone with this type of experience if you don't want him to continually be manhandled into the gate .

[parsixfarms]

Pass on this weekend and point to the Dwyer.

[NTamm1215]

What are they trying to do? Are they looking at races where he can win to get them towards an ultimate goal? I would target the Haskell if he was my horse and get him there via the Pegasus or Dwyer. Thus, he would not be running this weekend.

[letswastemoney]

Originally Posted by Jay Frederick

Why a new trainer? It's not the first time I have read this and am trying to figure out what his current trainer has done wrong that would lead people to suggest changing trainers.

Well, I've read a lot of criticism about the training pattern, his tendency for short 3 furlong workouts in particular, although Social Inclusion did gallop out strongly in the last work a lot farther.

I'm a huge fan of the horse though and saw no problem with his presence in the Belmont Stakes, up until the gate issues report.

[Cannon Shell]

Call me crazy but workouts with fractions of 33.2, 45.2, 58 and 109.4 rarely do much to settle a horse down especially 2 weeks after melting down in the post parade of a race. They have gate blankets that can be used to settle horses in the starting gate.

This is basic stuff...

What I would be trying to do with this horse is get a stakes win asap. For all the hype that surrounds him and the obvious talent he possesses, he has but a pair of stakes placings. The Woody Stevens could be a good stepping stone into the Haskell and make him a stakes winner which provides a nice fall back if he doesn't survive the season with all four legs intact. Especially if Monmouth continues to play like it has.

IMO the Belmont is a ridiculous spot for him as the only hope he'd have is to steal away on the front end under slow fractions which wont happen if he is rank nor is Espinoza going to let anyone get away with a 1/2 in 50 without pressure.

[Cannon Shell]

I got 2 horses from the vaunted MR program. If you want to burn money just set it on fire, dont give it away because of Robert Redford.

[Jay Frederick]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

Well, I've read a lot of criticism about the training pattern, his tendency for short 3 furlong workouts in particular, although Social Inclusion did gallop out strongly in the last work a lot farther.

I'm a huge fan of the horse though and saw no problem with his presence in the Belmont Stakes, up until the gate issues report.

It just seems premature to think he needs a new trainer. All of the races he has run have been the right spots.

Ultimately I think he'll prove to be a 7-9 furlong type horse, but I see no problem if they take a shot in the Belmont. He certainly belongs and you only get one shot at the Belmont.

If it doesn't work out than go from there.

you dont turn down an 8 milllion dollar offer for the horse just to run him in the Woody Stephen. Enter him in the Belmont and try to prove to everyone you are not crazy you turned down that offer.

[Calzone Lord]

There's no clear-cut right answer to this.

The Belmont would appear the worst idea, but this horse would be extremely dangerous with a loose early lead.



Go watch the tape of his second career start, when he got loose through soft early fractions. He would have stayed 2 miles, with that trip.

Da' Tara had 3 lengths on them, after a quarter mile, in the 2008 Belmont. He drew off to win by more than 5 lengths and paid $79.00 to win.

After that blowout Belmont win by more than 5 lengths, Da' Tara was subsequently 0-for-11, failing five different times at the allowance level.

Social Inclusion was subjected to wide stalking trips chasing lively paces in both the Wood and Preakness. He's no longer feared. Horses like California Chrome and Samraat will not test him early.

Obviously, the loose lead is there for the taking, with Social Inclusion. The questions about his ability to get the distance will be to his benefit -- as rival jockeys will be less inclined to make a pre-mature move to confront him.

Personally, if he was my horse, I'd either skip the weekend or take a stab in the Belmont -- depending upon how the trainer believes he's doing coming up to this race.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

There's no clear-cut right answer to this.

The Belmont would appear the worst idea, but this horse would be extremely dangerous with a loose early lead.



Go watch the tape of his second career start, when he got loose through soft early fractions. He would have stayed 2 miles, with that trip.

Da' Tara had 3 lengths on them, after a quarter mile, in the 2008 Belmont. He drew off to win by more than 5 lengths and paid $79.00 to win.

After that blowout Belmont win by more than 5 lengths, Da' Tara was subsequently 0-for-11, failing five different times at the allowance level.

Social Inclusion was subjected to wide stalking trips chasing lively paces in both the Wood and Preakness. He's no longer feared. Horses like California Chrome and Samraat will not test him early.

Obviously, the loose lead is there for the taking, with Social Inclusion. The questions about his ability to get the distance will be to his benefit -- as rival jockeys will be less inclined to make a pre-mature move to confront him.

Personally, if he was my horse, I'd either skip the weekend or take a stab in the Belmont -- depending upon how the trainer believes he's doing coming up to this race.

Without seeing who goes in the other two races, provided those two races are what they typically are, it seems obvious that his best chance at a win is in the race he'll almost certainly get clear, the Belmont.

I think he's the only horse in there with a real shot to beat chrome.