Horseshoes or Homeroom in PA?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Exactly.

I would say if your track is dependent on slots you better get a backup plan, no way politicians, especially the way the current ways are trending, are going to allow racing to take a big percentage of the casino profits.

While this might have been a self serving case of politics (well they all are) with superficial reasons the next guy is going to wave the "gotta do whats right for the low and middle class", and that argument gets a lot of legislation done, and will be more so in the future.

Racing in PA gets 13% of the profits. While you may be correct in saying that politicians will eventually steal the money what backup plan do you propose will replace $250 million a year?

While everyone loves to use the subsidy argument against racing the truth is that many industries are subsidized by the govt between direct cash investments, tax credits, tax holidays, etc

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Racing in PA gets 13% of the profits. While you may be correct in saying that politicians will eventually steal the money what backup plan do you propose will replace $250 million a year?

While everyone loves to use the subsidy argument against racing the truth is that many industries are subsidized by the govt between direct cash investments, tax credits, tax holidays, etc

Um a better product, one that can attract bettors and keep them long term, national legislation that would allow for the entire country to legally bet on line, stuff like that.

Subsidies cannot be the defining way the industry survives, which it sounds like it is for many.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Um a better product, one that can attract bettors and keep them long term, national legislation that would allow for the entire country to legally bet on line, stuff like that.

Subsidies cannot be the defining way the industry survives, which it sounds like it is for many.

Yeah I'm sure that they can stimulate a couple billion dollars worth of handle in PA with online betting.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Yeah I'm sure that they can stimulate a couple billion dollars worth of handle in PA with online betting.

How did they survive before he slots, or did they just open? I dont follow that circuit.......at all.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

How did they survive before he slots, or did they just open? I dont follow that circuit.......at all.

They were hardly thriving but they had no competition outside of AC before Delaware Park came online. Once that happened they had to get slots or probably close up shop. If you went back to a 1990 world prior to any casinos outside of Vegas and AC, racing might have a chance to turn things around w/o alternate sources of funding. However in the 2014 world that just isnt true.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

They were hardly thriving but they had no competition outside of AC before Delaware Park came online. Once that happened they had to get slots or probably close up shop. If you went back to a 1990 world prior to any casinos outside of Vegas and AC, racing might have a chance to turn things around w/o alternate sources of funding. However in the 2014 world that just isnt true.

I may be naive but I dont see people deciding "do I play the ponies or do I play the slots today".......I feel like people seek out poker to play, they seek out horses, or they seek out whatever venture that they enjoy and can survive.

You just have little chance of surviving long term in horse racing. When that changes, if ever, I feel like the sport could grow.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I may be naive but I dont see people deciding "do I play the ponies or do I play the slots today".......I feel like people seek out poker to play, they seek out horses, or they seek out whatever venture that they enjoy and can survive.

You just have little chance of surviving long term in horse racing. When that changes, if ever, I feel like the sport could grow.

Those in the industry would rather we just look at it as entertainment.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I may be naive but I dont see people deciding "do I play the ponies or do I play the slots today".......I feel like people seek out poker to play, they seek out horses, or they seek out whatever venture that they enjoy and can survive.

You just have little chance of surviving long term in horse racing. When that changes, if ever, I feel like the sport could grow.

You are thinking too specifically. Gambling is gambling and the proliferation of the availability of casino gambling more or less is choking off many of the potential players of the past.

Funny thing is that your thinking is similar to the reasoning that started racing down the path it has taken. NYRA thought that no one would go to OTB's and not to the tracks in the early 70's. No one thought that the lotteries would hurt handle. Tracks and horsemen didnt think that people would stop betting live races to bet simulcasts in the 90's.

In the end we cant go back and fix those mistakes because in each case the cat is out of the bag and cant be put back in. So yeah we should be using the slot money in a more efficient manner, we should have used more money to try to grow handle and we should have spent more on marketing and lobbyists. But as you have implied as long as the states are needing new revenue sources the slot money will always be in danger.

[Cannon Shell]

We have all been through this argument before. The response from the tracks has been silence as usual because they are most likely behind the deal and the horsemen for the most part havent done or said anything. In the end the people in the racing industry in PA are going to get run out of business and racing in this state will die. That of course will effect racing everywhere as even idiot politicians in other states have google and will likely try to copy what will be done here. Maryland is already on shaky grounds from rumblings there and you'd have to be an idiot to think that NY racing is not going to get the shaft soon.

Some people have this vision that there will eventually be just a few tracks left that will beam their signal out to the rest of the world. That will never happen because as soon as the tracks can make money and not have to operate, they will eventually all want to be taking the signal, not giving it.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

We have all been through this argument before. The response from the tracks has been silence as usual because they are most likely behind the deal and the horsemen for the most part havent done or said anything. In the end the people in the racing industry in PA are going to get run out of business and racing in this state will die. That of course will effect racing everywhere as even idiot politicians in other states have google and will likely try to copy what will be done here. Maryland is already on shaky grounds from rumblings there and you'd have to be an idiot to think that NY racing is not going to get the shaft soon.

Some people have this vision that there will eventually be just a few tracks left that will beam their signal out to the rest of the world. That will never happen because as soon as the tracks can make money and not have to operate, they will eventually all want to be taking the signal, not giving it.

again, what your essentially saying is as a product racing cannot make it because it cannot come close to funding itself.

Why should it not fail if that is the case, why is it up to slots players to prop up the failing business model?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

again, what your essentially saying is as a product racing cannot make it because it cannot come close to funding itself.

Why should it not fail if that is the case, why is it up to slots players to prop up the failing business model?

Racing can not compete with casino gambling for obvious reasons especially when that casino is placed in direct competition right on top of the racing facility. This was a pretty clear reason why racing was granted these monies in the first place. Surely life will go on in area's where tracks no longer exist but there is without a doubt a economic impact that racing provides that casinos certainly do not.

Even if in states like PA if things had been done in an ideal manner the amount of growth would never keep pace with the amount of money coming from our "partners" in the casino. Lets not forget that the ONLY reason that Parx and Penn have casinos is they were established racing facilities. Now big boys realize that sentiment only lasts so long when so much money is in play but facts are facts.

[tanner12oz]

Pa horse board commission or whatever was scheduled to be bankrupt this year according to an article I read a few months back...supposed to fold into the pa gaming commission