Andrew Luck

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by JJP

I actually LIKE Luck, but if he's going to get all the credit, he has to accept blame when he throws 3 or 4 picks.

Seattle has depth at WR and a solid TE? I'd take the Colts receivers over Seattle's. Baldwin is not a legit starting WR and even Tate is a number 2, at best. We really can't count Harvin because he's played about 3 quarters all season. I'll take Fleener over Zach Miller, who at best is average. And as for NE, they looked like a good running team against a poor run defense. If they somehow manage to beat Denver, and I don't think they will, Seattle or San Fran will completely shut down their running game.

I don't know where Luck did not accept blame. No one excused him from receiving blame, my point was that he is attempting to do more with less.

As far as individual personnel goes, there's no chance anyone would take the receiving corps that Luck had on Saturday night over what Wilson currently has, even without Harvin and Rice. Guys like Golden Tate and Doug Baldwin are proven commodities in the NFL. Zach Miller is a pro bowler who had 192 catches between 2008 and 2010 for 2268 yards catching passes from the likes of JaMarcus Russell, Bruce Gradkowski, Jason Campbell, Kyle Boller, Daunte Culpepper, and Charlie Frye. He led the Seahawks in TD catches this year and missed 2 games. Fleener has incredible talent and is one you'd buy moving forward if given a choice between he and Miller, but Miller is absolutely a solid TE.

Tate and Baldwin combined for 114 receptions and 1676 yards this year, most of which was played without the team's two best receivers. That's depth.

LaVon Brazill's career high in receptions in one game was 3 prior to Saturday night. He didn't even play until Week 6 this year and had a total of 23 catches in his career coming into the playoffs. Whalen had 24 catches on the season coming into the playoffs. They got the typical 0 out of the oft-injured Hayward-Bey down the stretch. Whalen and Brazill had very similar stats to Jermaine Kearse, who is Seattle's 5th option at wide receiver when everyone's healthy.

All of this doesn't include the fact that Seattle has one of the best RBs in the league, while Luck had the god awful Trent Richardson and Donald Brown.

[JJP]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I don't know where Luck did not accept blame. No one excused him from receiving blame, my point was that he is attempting to do more with less.

As far as individual personnel goes, there's no chance anyone would take the receiving corps that Luck had on Saturday night over what Wilson currently has, even without Harvin and Rice. Guys like Golden Tate and Doug Baldwin are proven commodities in the NFL. Zach Miller is a pro bowler who had 192 catches between 2008 and 2010 for 2268 yards catching passes from the likes of JaMarcus Russell, Bruce Gradkowski, Jason Campbell, Kyle Boller, Daunte Culpepper, and Charlie Frye. He led the Seahawks in TD catches this year and missed 2 games. Fleener has incredible talent and is one you'd buy moving forward if given a choice between he and Miller, but Miller is absolutely a solid TE.

Tate and Baldwin combined for 114 receptions and 1676 yards this year, most of which was played without the team's two best receivers. That's depth.

LaVon Brazill's career high in receptions in one game was 3 prior to Saturday night. He didn't even play until Week 6 this year and had a total of 23 catches in his career coming into the playoffs. Whalen had 24 catches on the season coming into the playoffs. They got the typical 0 out of the oft-injured Hayward-Bey down the stretch. Whalen and Brazill had very similar stats to Jermaine Kearse, who is Seattle's 5th option at wide receiver when everyone's healthy.

All of this doesn't include the fact that Seattle has one of the best RBs in the league, while Luck had the god awful Trent Richardson and Donald Brown.

If you are going to use the Oakland QB argument with Zach Miller (and I understand that argument), you can make the case that Heyward Bey had the same QBs throwing to him. Heyward Bey's 2011 numbers are far superior anything Baldwin has ever done, and actually a little better than Tate's 2013 season. While Luck only had Wayne for half this past season, he is light years better than either Tate or Baldwin, and I'd still take him over Harvin.

I should've rephrased the part about Luck accepting blame. Actually he does. His fanboys are the ones in denial. He may be the best QB in the league in two or three years, but he still has to develop.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by JJP

If you are going to use the Oakland QB argument with Zach Miller (and I understand that argument), you can make the case that Heyward Bey had the same QBs throwing to him. Heyward Bey's 2011 numbers are far superior anything Baldwin has ever done, and actually a little better than Tate's 2013 season. While Luck only had Wayne for half this past season, he is light years better than either Tate or Baldwin, and I'd still take him over Harvin.

I should've rephrased the part about Luck accepting blame. Actually he does. His fanboys are the ones in denial. He may be the best QB in the league in two or three years, but he still has to develop.

How many teams GM's would trade their QB for him right now? At least 25 and maybe more.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

How many teams GM's would trade their QB for him right now? At least 25 and maybe more.

Every one based on age.

[JJP]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

How many teams GM's would trade their QB for him right now? At least 25 and maybe more.

Probably at least 25. So what? GMs go strictly by potential, and Luck is loaded with potential. Nobody doubts that. But he has a gunslinger mentality. He's going to need to tone that down a bit.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by JJP

Probably at least 25. So what? GMs go strictly by potential, and Luck is loaded with potential. Nobody doubts that. But he has a gunslinger mentality. He's going to need to tone that down a bit.

So what? He has a pretty good track record already no? 22-11 with a playoff win. I wish my team had that kind of QB and record

[Duvalier]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

So what? He has a pretty good track record already no? 22-11 with a playoff win. I wish my team had that kind of QB and record

Yeah but your team has Lauren Tannehill

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Duvalier

Yeah but your team has Lauren Tannehill

True.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

So what? He has a pretty good track record already no? 22-11 with a playoff win. I wish my team had that kind of QB and record

No, see, it doesn't matter that he had virtually no running game in the playoffs and 2/3 of his primary receivers were basically practice squad guys. Oh, throw in that his defense was abysmal. He sucks because he's thrown 8 INTs and "only" gone 1-2 in three games where his team was an underdog, at least one of which came to the eventual Super Bowl champion.

[JJP]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

So what? He has a pretty good track record already no? 22-11 with a playoff win. I wish my team had that kind of QB and record

People like you equate a team's win-loss record 100% to the QB. Sorry, it may be the most important position, but it still is a team game. Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl but Hostetler and Dilfer have. Would you not consider Marino a great QB?

[Duvalier]

Originally Posted by JJP

People like you equate a team's win-loss record 100% to the QB. Sorry, it may be the most important position, but it still is a team game. Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl but Hostetler and Dilfer have. Would you not consider Marino a great QB?

Where did he equate a team's win-loss record to the QB?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by JJP

People like you equate a team's win-loss record 100% to the QB. Sorry, it may be the most important position, but it still is a team game. Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl but Hostetler and Dilfer have. Would you not consider Marino a great QB?

People like me? lol

Of course the QB gets an over sized amount of credit or blame for teams winning or losing but in this case this is the key player that a 2-14 team acquired which immediately turned into 22 wins over the next 2 seasons. Of course he doesn't make tackles on defense or kick FG's but to ignore the obvious huge positive impact that Luck has had is silly.

We aren't talking about winning a super bowl here. Marino set a million records and made the playoffs 10 times.

Want Luck stats?
His completion % went up 6% this year to 60.2%
He threw 23 TD's and 18 INT's as a rookie and this year threw 23 TD's and only 9 INT's.
His QB rating went from 76.5 as a rookie to 87.0 this year.
His sack totals went from 41 to 32
He has had 11 game winning drives and 8 4th quarter comebacks not counting the playoff game against KC.

He clearly is good and getting better

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

How many teams GM's would trade their QB for him right now? At least 25 and maybe more.

I can honestly make say that only 2 QB's wouldn't warrant a trade.
. Aaron Rogers and Nick Foles. As a GM I am looking at a 10 year horizon and Rogers and Foles are the only 2 that have a shot at being around then. Luck has proven he is never out of a game.. The Zenyetta of NFL QB's so to say

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by jms62

I can honestly make say that only 2 QB's wouldn't warrant a trade.
. Aaron Rogers and Nick Foles. As a GM I am looking at a 10 year horizon and Rogers and Foles are the only 2 that have a shot at being around then. Luck has proven he is never out of a game.. The Zenyetta of NFL QB's so to say

That is Pure Poetry right there