Weekend Stakes Beyers

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Kasept

*yawn* A classic evasion of your completely wrong-headed original post...

Stallion-eligible colts/horses haven't been rushed off the last couple of years and we've have had a particularly nice group of older horses as a result. That's a inarguable fact. The mares were thrown in as additional evidence of owner/breeders providing extra seasons of pleasure for those that follow them.

In most cases, Wise Dan and most other top-performing geldings wouldn't be top performers had they not been gelded.

A bit evasive on Wise Dan. Counter factual isn't an answer. We both know he would've been retired had he not been gelded....I'm shocked my comment has elicited that much debate. Saying Thank God for geldings is not exactly that big a deal but it's winter and I get it. Slow times.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

A bit evasive on Wise Dan. Counter factual isn't an answer. We both know he would've been retired had he not been gelded....I'm shocked my comment has elicited that much debate. Saying Thank God for geldings is not exactly that big a deal but it's winter and I get it. Slow times.

So obstinate and obtuse... Wise Dan almost certainly isn't the horse he is if he remains whole.. You can't even accept that fact? If they won't train and are studish and unfocused and constantly doing things to hurt themselves, they can't turn into the kind of horse he is. That's why they get gelded.

[randallscott35]

You left out Obfuscation...

I accept that. He would be pining the bottom level claimers at Parx with balls. Got it. Moving on.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by Kasept

So obstinate and obtuse... Wise Dan almost certainly isn't the horse he is if he remains whole.. You can't even accept that fact? If they won't train and are studish and unfocused and constantly doing things to hurt themselves, they can't turn into the kind of horse he is. That's why they get gelded.

All this is true. But it's also true what Randall was trying to get at. A non-gelded horse as good as Wise Dan most likely would have been off to the breeding shed after last year's BC.

--Dunbar

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

All this is true. But it's also true what Randall was trying to get at. A non-gelded horse as good as Wise Dan most likely would have been off to the breeding shed after last year's BC.

--Dunbar

Yep those son's of Wiseman's Ferry are all the rage... In Pa. they call him AP Indy Lite

[Indian Charlie]

What would Wise Dan, all other things being equal, stand for if he was not gelded?

15k?

25K?

50 even?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

What would Wise Dan, all other things being equal, stand for if he was not gelded?

15k?

25K?

50 even?

No such thing as a 6 or 7 year old that goes to stud at anything above 10k...Why? because nobody could risk a DIRT horse devaluing himself by continuing to race as a 6/7 years old. Point of Entry only ran this year because he was grass meant, in very sporting wealthy hands, and while he and Gio Pionti might become ok dirt producers its unlikely either would have been campaigned at 5 if they were dirt types. For all I know they can because Tapit and War Front(who thought those two would be special)

Who the heck is paying 50k for a unproven out of the box Wiseman's Ferry that was a 8f grass horse? You think Wise Dan would be better received then a Tiznow? That is the only sort of comparable stud I could relate a whole Wise Dan too and that comparison is a huge theoretical stretch.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

What would Wise Dan, all other things being equal, stand for if he was not gelded?

15k?

25K?

50 even?

by wiseman's ferry? he'd be lucky to get 10k. he'd also be lucky to stand in ky. i think for comparison, you could look at einstein. 7500, and a winner on all three surfaces.

[randallscott35]

Triple Crown- they are all racing soooo long.

Orb- Retired, all of 2 starts after the Triple Crown series, supposedly healthy so why retire?
Oxbow- Injured, though could've come back given enough time, so why retire?
Palice Malice- Will be back, yay, for a 4 yr old season where he surely runs holes in the wind at FG and GP and Xs at the Breeders Cup like every other Pletcher horse that can't get their fix.

If all goes well we can look forward to Golden Soul hitting the board in a NX3 race at some point in 2014. Fingers crossed. I'll keep rooting for my happy geldings long into the future.