Most Impressive in Defeat?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

It is hard to question him though. I'm sure we would have had another Woodbine incident if Stevens hit him once. Glad that tragedy was averted.

Come on, how can he be questioned after yet another stellar performance on the biggest stage?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Come on, how can he be questioned after yet another stellar performance on the biggest stage?

How'd you do?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

How'd you do?

I don't train any horses.

It was a joke. I don't make any secret that I'm no fan of Todd Pletcher. Is that not allowed on the internet?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I don't train any horses.

It was a joke. I don't make any secret that I'm no fan of Todd Pletcher. Is that not allowed on the internet?

You don't have to be a fan of his to believe he had a pretty good reason to tell the jockey not to hit a horse in a 2 million dollar race. I'm sure it wasn't on a whim. Of course that doesn't mean that the horse would have responded well to the whip but we will never know. That's the thing, half of this stuff is guesswork and 20/20 hindsight.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You don't have to be a fan of his to believe he had a pretty good reason to tell the jockey not to hit a horse in a 2 million dollar race. I'm sure it wasn't on a whim. Of course that doesn't mean that the horse would have responded well to the whip but we will never know. That's the thing, half of this stuff is guesswork and 20/20 hindsight.

My intent was never to question the actual instruction not to use the whip. That was totally not the point. I just said that is information that should be public.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

My intent was never to question the actual instruction not to use the whip. That was totally not the point. I just said that is information that should be public.

I just don't think that the value outweighs the potential pratfalls. As I said there is no easy way to do this despite your assertion that it would be easy. It won't because it isnt cut and dry like an equipment change. What if the trainer forget to tell the jockey in the paddock? Or he isn't there and the assistant forgets? Or the rider who doesn't speak English as a first language gets confused? These things happen all the time and no one realizes it. The Stewards will be loathe to start policing rider instruction's and that is really what it is.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I just don't think that the value outweighs the potential pratfalls. As I said there is no easy way to do this despite your assertion that it would be easy. It won't because it isnt cut and dry like an equipment change. What if the trainer forget to tell the jockey in the paddock? Or he isn't there and the assistant forgets? Or the rider who doesn't speak English as a first language gets confused? These things happen all the time and no one realizes it. The Stewards will be loathe to start policing rider instruction's and that is really what it is.

Like I said, we can always find reasons not to do things. I do see your side of things, even when I debate it. Trainers and jockeys "might forget" or "don't speak English" doesn't cut it for me. Pretty sure I could learn to say "Don't use the whip" in Spanish if I needed to do so in about a minute. Other's mileage may vary. I guess the military did that to me, tough to change after all those years.

[Jay Frederick]

I think way more is being made out of this than should be. I understand the general point of wanting to know as much as possible, but I can see a scenario where a rider doesn't listen to the trainer and whips anyway. Or where a jockey knows not to whip because the horse doesn't like it, but still carries the whip in order to flash it to the horse to keep it together late.

For example, Mucho Macho Man was never hit with the whip in the Classic either, because Kathy Ritvo told Gary Stevens he doesn't like it and Stevens observed this watching his prior races. Stevens flashed the whip to Mucho Macho Man through the lane, but never hit him.