Champion 3 Year Old Filly

[booner]

Might as well start a thread about it.....

[RockHardTen1985]

Princess. Only Hatches IMO could have took it away. She was already a duel Grade 1 winner and defeated Princess head to head.

[10 pnt move up]

I think on the merits this is close, but since one ran all year long and took on all comers POS has to win this.

I think both had 4 grade 1 wins if I recall.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I think on the merits this is close, but since one ran all year long and took on all comers POS has to win this.

I think both had 4 grade 1 wins if I recall.

OK Im not trying to be an ass and Im not POS fan.... But 4 of Beholders wins shouldnt even count. She is beating CA breds at 3-5 and that Baffert 4th stringer who POS destroyed in a historically important race.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

OK Im not trying to be an ass and Im not POS fan.... But 4 of Beholders wins shouldnt even count. She is beating CA breds at 3-5 and that Baffert 4th stringer who POS destroyed in a historically important race.

I can easily say the same thing about some of POS wins, those aqueduct wins were real class fields, and that was some field she destroyed in the Alabama.

I think both achieved a lot over the season.

[Frost King]

If you are only as good as the company you keep/beat, then this debate is a no contest. If you eliminate all common opponents, and the races that they faced each other, that would be the Breeder's Cup and the Kentucky Oaks. The common opponents would also include Fiftyshadesofhay, Authenticity and Unlimited Budget. Princess of Slymar has beaten the following stakes placed horses in 2013, Ruby Lips, Walkwithapurpose, My Happy Face, Marathon Lady, Cue The Moon, Carnival Court, And Why Not, and Centring. These horses have a lifetime combined record of Gr I(0-1-9), Gr II(0-3-2) and GrIII(1-4-2). Beholder has faced the following horses in 2013, Joyful Victory, Flashy American, More Chocolate, Viva Villagio, Include Me Out, Charlie Em, Iotapa, Scarlett Strike, Heir Kitty, Speedingthruthecity, Renee's Titan, Dawn's Charm and Switch The Leads. These horses have a lifetime stakes records of GrI(4-6-7), GrII(6-5-4), GrIII(0-5-6). The numbers speak for themselves. As much as everyone, thinks that Beholder has been racing against "Tomato Cans," and aided by a bias today, the resume speaks for itself. She just left no doubt today, who was racing the "Tomato Cans."

[Calzone Lord]

It was a game gesture by the owner of Princess of Sylmar, and you hate to see it backfire like it did, but Beholder has to be voted champion 3yo filly.

It seemed the only reason Princess of Sylmar was even entered, is because of some groundswell among some media, and fans on the Internet suggesting that she had some kind of case for Horse of the Year.

There should be three pieces of criteria to determine a champion -- and in the following order:

1.) Hypothetical handicap based on 2013 form.

2.) Quality of best performances throughout the season

3.) Overall season record, with emphasis placed on success at the Grade 1 level.


In a hypothetical handicap race on Jan 1st of 2014, based only on 2013 form, Beholder would be asked to carry a higher weight than Princess of Sylmar. The two head-to-head meetings in the Kentucky Oaks and Breeders Cup Distaff underline that fact.

Factors two and three are pretty close to a wash. Both of them own 4 Grade 1 wins in 2013 and possess a similar level of ability.

Objectively, Beholder is the champion 3-year-old filly.

Unfortunately, the gameness and good sportsmanship of Princess of Sylmar's owner allowed Beholder to 'steal it in the final 30 seconds of a round' to use a boxing analogy.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

It was a game gesture by the owner of Princess of Sylmar, and you hate to see it backfire like it did, but Beholder has to be voted champion 3yo filly.

It seemed the only reason Princess of Sylmar was even entered, is because of some groundswell among some media, and fans on the Internet suggesting that she had some kind of case for Horse of the Year.

There should be three pieces of criteria to determine a champion -- and in the following order:

1.) Hypothetical handicap based on 2013 form.

2.) Quality of best performances throughout the season

3.) Overall season record, with emphasis placed on success at the Grade 1 level.


In a hypothetical handicap race on Jan 1st of 2014, based only on 2013 form, Beholder would be asked to carry a higher weight than Princess of Sylmar. The two head-to-head meetings in the Kentucky Oaks and Breeders Cup Distaff underline that fact.

Factors two and three are pretty close to a wash. Both of them own 4 Grade 1 wins in 2013 and possess a similar level of ability.

Objectively, Beholder is the champion 3-year-old filly.

Unfortunately, the gameness and good sportsmanship of Princess of Sylmar's owner allowed Beholder to 'steal it in the final 30 seconds of a round' to use a boxing analogy.

WHile Im not sure I agree, its at least well said and fair.

[Calzone Lord]

A hypothetical handicap based on seasonal form, done by competent professional "handicappers" like Vosburgh, is what determined champions in the old days.

Nowadays, it's a bunch of writers and media people acting on whims, and their own personal ideas of what they feel determines a champion.

Only positive thing to say about it, is that consensus wins.

[randallscott35]

I have never believed that being sporting gets penalized. If POS doesn't run, she wins....They are both deserving...I think POS is more.

[jms62]

Princess never had a chance and we all knew that before they loaded based upon how the track was playing. If they decided to scratch yesterday would they have gotten their 100 Grand back?

[FATPIANO]

Beholder.............Champion 2yr old filly.........Champion 3yr old filly........It is not easy beating the current Champion, even impossible to deny her after yesterdays performance.................sorry for POS, she should have stayed home and then it might have been a close contest, but now she loses the crown to Beholder........that is the way it is......... Congrats to The Champ

[FATPIANO]

PS: side note.........Beholder is the FIRST filly in Breeders Cup History, to win the Juvenile Filly and return The following year to win The Distaff..........

[Frost King]

The East Coast racing establishment, annoited POS champion because she ran down Delta Princess. Then when the both of them get demolished, by Beholder, the excuses come. No different than the Super Bowl. It is only one game, winner takes all. Do we deny wildcard teams that when the game their crown? Or do we claim because Team A was 15-1 during the regular season the Champs? No different yesterday. Just remember when the scrutiny gets higher, the less the Pletcher horses run. Just look at the results.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Frost King

The East Coast racing establishment, annoited POS champion because she ran down Delta Princess. Then when the both of them get demolished, by Beholder, the excuses come. No different than the Super Bowl. It is only one game, winner takes all. Do we deny wildcard teams that when the game their crown? Or do we claim because Team A was 15-1 during the regular season the Champs? No different yesterday. Just remember when the scrutiny gets higher, the less the Pletcher horses run. Just look at the results.

who is delta princess? i don't think anyone anointed a horse, i think princess came is as favorite for year end honors.
and i completely disagree about it all being about the one day. it's supposed to be awards for a season-and racing has nothing in common with football, and horses certainly don't know that one race is supposed to mean more than another.

[hondo]

If POS never ran in the BC she would likely have been 3-year old champ. However based on the result of the BC race , the the horses she beat and the way she won, Ky Oaks aside where she only lost head to head by 1/2 length and my have had excuses that day based on her campaign where she now has 4 G1s beating older horses twice, this year Beholder is my choice.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Frost King

No different than the Super Bowl. It is only one game, winner takes all.

This kind of nonsense drives me nuts.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Dugout

POS win against Royal Delta doesnt look as good does it?

I think this is a good point, much of that win was based on Royal Delta and she clearly has lost a step.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by miraja2

This kind of nonsense drives me nuts.

the name notwithstanding, the bc is not the decider for year-end awards. you get a trophy and a nice check for a win on bc day, but it's not meant to be THE race to give away yearly championships. it's not a superbowl, there are no playoffs to get here.
imo, too much focus is on one race by many voters, who know nothing about what happened the rest of the year. bad enough that know-nothing voters weight the day too much, but to have 'fans' who are supposed to know better doing the same...inexcusable.

[Jay Frederick]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I think this is a good point, much of that win was based on Royal Delta and she clearly has lost a step.

So then wouldn't Beholder's win not look as good since she beat an over the hill Royal Delta and a Princess of Sylmar who didn't show up with her best?

To be clear, I don't think this, but isn't it the same thing?