NY Task Force on Racehorse Health & Safety Report, Reccos

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

In other words, you won't address any of the reasonable points I made,

No. I have attempted multiple times on this board to address, in a reasonable and honest fashion, your factual errors about what lasix can and cannot do.

I have honestly quoted to you the proven, unquestionable science. I have tried to give you the real facts.

You have always simply ignored it or dismissed it out of hand as you did above.

You can't refute the science, it's what it is. The facts matter. The truth matters. That isn't my opinion, it's just the truth. My opinion is formed by the truth.

You're is formed in your imagination.

You have always, and continue to, ignore discussing the issue of lasix from a factual scientific basis.

You deny proven science exists. You simply, purposely ignore whatever doesn't fit your opinion.

Thus "debating" you on lasix is futile, and a colossal waste of time, because you don't ever debate honestly from the basis of truthful scientific fact about the drug.

you'll just repeat the same mantra ad nauseum.

Yes, you do.

It is true, I'm no vet, but I know horsesh!t when I see it. I will say it is comical that I, and others, get chastised because we aren't vets but give opinions, but a bunch of vets think they know how to measure horse speed.

You get "chastised" because you confuse "opinion" with "factual reality" and "science"

When a horse is running on a high-speed treadmill set at 16 meters/second squared - yeah. We "do" know how to measure speed. And yeah - we know how to do those "statistics" things when examining 27,000+ horses that race in Australia, North and South America, and South Africa, too.

Dismissing the hard, proven science out of hand - not any "new" information, mind you, but studies whose facts have been independently verified and repeated over and over by scientists in multiple disciplines - is what make the "anti-lasix" argument folks a complete loser.

You might as well embrace creationism to further your arguments about lasix. It's the same thing as your blatant dismissal of all proven science.

I repeat: Thus "debating" you on lasix is futile, and a colossal waste of time, because you don't ever debate honestly from the basis of truthful scientific fact about the drug.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

When a horse is racing on a high-speed treadmill set at 16 meters/second squared - yeah. We "do" know how to measure speed.

Comical. When horses start racing on treadmills, maybe that will have some merit. I can't think of a dumber way to try to measure horse speed. You measure speed in races, not on a treadmill or even during workouts. If that worked, every winning first time starter would pay $2.20.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Comical. When horses start racing on treadmills, maybe that will have some merit. I can't think of a dumber way to try to measure horse speed. You measure speed in races, not on a treadmill or even during workouts. If that worked, every winning first time starter would pay $2.20.

Yeah, just ignore those 27,000 other horses I mentioned.

Science - it screw up your opinions. Too bad for you.

But the most hilarious thing is, in your silly superficial, shallow arguments about "speed" right now, you completely fail to realize how I've always posted the science that shows horses improve 3 - 5.5 lengths on lasix. Including in this thread. Including the post you dismissed as "yada, yada, yada'

Duh.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Riot

But the most hilarious thing is, in your silly superficial, shallow arguments about "speed" right now, you completely fail to realize how I've always posted the science that shows horses improve 3 - 5.5 lengths on lasix.

So it is a performance enhancer?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

So it is a performance enhancer?

You might rather re-read the multiple places where I have already answered that in detail rather than your simplistic statement - good job!

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Riot

You might rather re-read the multiple places where I have already answered that in detail rather than your simplistic statement - good job!

Since you keep talking in circles I thought keeping it simple might help.

It hasn't.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Since you keep talking in circles I thought keeping it simple might help.

It hasn't.

It is all she ever does. It would explain a lot if she lived in a crop field.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Since you keep talking in circles I thought keeping it simple might help.

It hasn't.

You know that's not true, nor is it fair.

Especially as I've tried to answer your questions in good faith, and it appears you deliberately want to ignore that.

Once again, I tried to keep it very simple for you pages ago:

Virtually all TB race horses suffer EIPH.
Suffering EIPH impedes performance.
Lasix attenuates EIPH very successfully.
Horses that don't suffer EIPH - because they have received a shot of lasix - regain their performance level.
Yes, lasix improves performance in horses suffering EIPH, because they are no longer suffering EIPH.
If you give a performance horse not suffering EIPH lasix, does their performance improve?
No. Not at all. No, lasix is not a stand-alone performance-enhancer.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

So it is a performance enhancer?

Of course it is, otherwise those horses that don't get Lasix, but get some other form of treatment to stop bleeding, would also improve 3 to 5 lengths. But, they don't.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Of course it is, otherwise those horses that don't get Lasix, but get some other form of treatment to stop bleeding, would also improve 3 to 5 lengths. But, they don't.

Yes. Furosemide stops EIPH. Other things also help stop EIPH. Currently allowable adjuncts do not reliably work to stop EIPH.

The improvement of return to performance - a horse being able to perform again at 100%, because the horse is not bleeding into their lung from EIPH and suffocating - is about the same for those things that work successfully to stop EIPH.

Science is amazing. Medicine is amazing. How about that?