mitt, mitt, mitt

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by joeydb

A vote for Gary Johnson, in this election, is a vote for Barack Obama. That is a statement summarizing the fact that the mathematical outcome is the same.

It is also identical to writing in your own name at the ballot box. And pretty close to just staying home.

I respect your conviction in your beliefs. Unfortunately, elections are won or lost by the counting of votes, and on that basis all the justification you put into Gary Johnson evaporates when the count is made.

Those are the facts. Anything else is like Quixotic tilting at windmills.

what about liberals who do not like Obama and will vote Libertarian.. is that still a vote for Obama.. or is that a vote away from Obama? It's not like those people would have ever voted for Romney.

No amount of rhetoric will make me vote for Obama or Romney in this election. I'm simply no longer interested in the status quo, which is what we will get with both of them. Both parties are equally interested in taking away freedoms, its one of the only bipartisan supported issues going on now. Romney will not change that, business as usual.

I'm voting Libertarian. If that indirectly makes me vote for Obama, well then so be it.

I really cant believe that voting 3rd party is no better than staying home. So much for personal responsibility and choices in this country.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

what about liberals who do not like Obama and will vote Libertarian.. is that still a vote for Obama.. or is that a vote away from Obama? It's not like those people would have ever voted for Romney.

No amount of rhetoric will make me vote for Obama or Romney in this election. I'm simply no longer interested in the status quo, which is what we will get with both of them. Both parties are equally interested in taking away freedoms, its one of the only bipartisan supported issues going on now. Romney will not change that, business as usual.

I'm voting Libertarian. If that indirectly makes me vote for Obama, well then so be it.

I really cant believe that voting 3rd party is no better than staying home. So much for personal responsibility and choices in this country.

if enough people voted c, it would be a revolution.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by Danzig

if enough people voted c, it would be a revolution.

That is all we need, another Johnson in the White House.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by pointman

That is all we need, another Johnson in the White House.

hey, maybe third times' the charm there too. hopefully not a drunk like the first one.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by pointman

That is all we need, another Johnson in the White House.

Condy then?

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Danzig

if enough people voted c, it would be a revolution.

If enough people feared capital punishment, there would be no premeditated murder.

The polls are close - 47% each, or 46% to 45% - how is that remaining 9% going to go third party and win?

[Rudeboyelvis]

They're all the same guy- None of them will make the hard decisions to fix this country, they will both spiral us further and further down the shi.t hole. It's like being held up at gunpoint by two criminals at the same time and having to decide which one is going to get your cash - in the end, it doesn't matter where it goes, all you know is you'll never see it again.

As George Carlin famously said, "Your only choice in America anymore is paper or plastic".

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

They're all the same guy- None of them will make the hard decisions to fix this country, they will both spiral us further and further down the shi.t hole. It's like being held up at gunpoint by two criminals at the same time and having to decide which one is going to get your cash - in the end, it doesn't matter where it goes, all you know is you'll never see it again.

As George Carlin famously said, "Your only choice in America anymore is paper or plastic".

We should at least give Romney a chance to fucl< things up and break all his campaign promises like we did the last guy(s).

How can we forget these slogans:

George W. Bush: Compassionate conservatism, Leave no child behind, Real plans for real people, Reformer with results, Yes, America Can!

Barack Obama: Change We Can Believe In, Change We Need,Hope,Yes We Can!, Forward

Mitt Romney: Believe in America

[jms62]

Originally Posted by geeker2

We should at least give Romney a chance to fucl< things up and break all his campaign promises like we did the last guy(s).

How can we forget these slogans:

George W. Bush: Compassionate conservatism, Leave no child behind, Real plans for real people, Reformer with results, Yes, America Can!

Barack Obama: Change We Can Believe In, Change We Need,Hope,Yes We Can!, Forward

Mitt Romney: Believe in America

Our jobs shipped out of the country at an expidited pace, higher taxes on me while the rich get a tax brea and no health care when I really needed are 3 reasons off the top of my head not to vote for Romney.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by jms62

Our jobs shipped out of the country at an expidited pace, higher taxes on me while the rich get a tax brea and no health care when I really needed are 3 reasons off the top of my head not to vote for Romney.

and growth in spending on the biggest ticket item we have-the military. removal of banking regs, for new, better, but not described ones.

of course staying with the turd sandwich over the douche bag isn't much of a confidence booster.

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by jms62

Our jobs shipped out of the country at an expidited pace, higher taxes on me while the rich get a tax brea and no health care when I really needed are 3 reasons off the top of my head not to vote for Romney.

I thought you supported Ron Paul?

You do realize he is/was in favor of dismantling Medicare and Social Security right?

So would you say your views are closer to Romney's or Obama's when viewed in a comparison to Ron Paul?

http://www.isidewith.com/paul-vs-romney-on-the-issues

http://www.isidewith.com/paul-vs-obama-on-the-issues

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by geeker2

We should at least give Romney a chance to fucl< things up and break all his campaign promises like we did the last guy(s).

How can we forget these slogans:

George W. Bush: Compassionate conservatism, Leave no child behind, Real plans for real people, Reformer with results, Yes, America Can!

Barack Obama: Change We Can Believe In, Change We Need,Hope,Yes We Can!, Forward

Mitt Romney: Believe in America

So if "they are all the same", your vote, and consequently your opinion, are meaningless. This is a "reductio ad absurdum" - a finding that contradicts the premise: that we are a constitutionally federated republic, and that as such we do have differences contrasted with monarchies, dictatorships, and despotism.

Give yourself the best chance of defeating an unsatisfactory incumbent. Vote for Romney.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by joeydb

So if "they are all the same", your vote, and consequently your opinion, are meaningless. This is a "reductio ad absurdum" - a finding that contradicts the premise: that we are a constitutionally federated republic, and that as such we do have differences contrasted with monarchies, dictatorships, and despotism.

Give yourself the best chance of defeating an unsatisfactory incumbent. Vote for Romney.

A Corporate Oligarchy is a form of power, governmental or operational, where such power effectively rests with a small, elite group of inside individuals, sometimes from a small group of educational institutions, or influential economic entities or devices, such as banks, commercial entities, lobbyists that act in complicity with, or at the whim of the oligarchy, often with little or no regard for constitutionally protected prerogative.

Monopolies are sometimes granted to state-controlled entities, such as the Royal Charter granted to the East India Company, or privileged bargaining rights to unions (labor monopolies) with very partisan political interests.

This is what we are living in.

Only when we all collectively dismiss the bullsi.t spewed from the corporate-controlled (RE: State Run) media and reclaim our nation, can we try that whole "Constitutionally Federated Republic" thing again.

but if you think you're getting there with Romney or Obama, I'd say you're in for a disappointment.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by joeydb

If enough people feared capital punishment, there would be no premeditated murder.

The polls are close - 47% each, or 46% to 45% - how is that remaining 9% going to go third party and win?

what part of 'if enough people did it' do you not understand?

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Danzig

what part of 'if enough people did it' do you not understand?

Why not just generalize to:

If (an impossibility) happens, then (some result never seen before) will occur.

What are the odds that the 6% to 9% who neither preferred Romney nor Obama will grow to the 34% minimum you need to win?

Astronomical. A hell of a lot closer to an impossibility than an attainable feat.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Why not just generalize to:

If (an impossibility) happens, then (some result never seen before) will occur.

What are the odds that the 6% to 9% who neither preferred Romney nor Obama will grow to the 34% minimum you need to win?

Astronomical. A hell of a lot closer to an impossibility than an attainable feat.

i didn't say it would happen this election. it's why i encourage people when the discussion comes up to break away from the one or the other mindset. it's not either/or.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i didn't say it would happen this election. it's why i encourage people when the discussion comes up to break away from the one or the other mindset. it's not either/or.

I respectfully disagree.

Elections are discrete events. There is no continuum to be found in between those events. So I don't think that you will grow a populace who will consistently vote when that vote is ineffective - a significant percentage will instead stay home and say things like "they are all the same". Unfortunately at that point, the actions of those objecting to the party system and the voting process are indisguishable from those who don't give a sh*t or are just too drunk or stoned to make it to the polls that day.

You're not going to get the progression to a 40% plurality win. You'll get single digits, over and over again - a true exercise in futility.

In theory - I do agree that I'd like a broader spectrum of choices than "for or against" either party, where "Anti-Democrat = Republican" and vice versa. But the math will not work out in our current voting system.

As others have suggested, if there was a ranked system instead of a single choice - your third party would have a good shot. I would rank mine: "1. Republican 2. Libertarian and 3. (or zero) Democrat." A liberal might do the opposite, with Libertarian being #2 for him as well.

Or 3 points for top choice, 2 points for second choice, 1 point for last choice.

[jms62]

deleted

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

what about liberals who do not like Obama and will vote Libertarian.. is that still a vote for Obama.. or is that a vote away from Obama? It's not like those people would have ever voted for Romney.

No amount of rhetoric will make me vote for Obama or Romney in this election. I'm simply no longer interested in the status quo, which is what we will get with both of them. Both parties are equally interested in taking away freedoms, its one of the only bipartisan supported issues going on now. Romney will not change that, business as usual.

I'm voting Libertarian. If that indirectly makes me vote for Obama, well then so be it.

I really cant believe that voting 3rd party is no better than staying home. So much for personal responsibility and choices in this country.

It wasn't intended as rhetoric - honestly. If you vote third party, you will get the status quo when the incumbent wins.

If you indirectly vote for Obama, as you correctly put it, then how is it NOT the same as staying home or simply voting for him?

This is just the math of the situation. Third parties (for both sides - though the left is less frequent in having a split) suffer from this numerical handicap.