Racing Media

[phystech]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Arguably the biggest name in horse racing media (Beyer, not DrugS ) writes an article talking about everything you mention here, and you're going on (day two) about a horse getting claimed from you.

Who's the clown, bro?

No one likes what Ness does. You're preaching to the choir here. The media isn't going to change this IMO. It's up to the tracks. And when Ness is gone, another five are going to pop up in his place.

If you are looking towards the media to help clean up the game, you're wasting your time.

Try again - happy to have the horse claimed from me. I'm a claiming owner and can't think of one in 15 years I wish didn't get claimed, including this one. That isn't the issue. I made my money and the profit check cashed nicely from the private purchase. Ever done that?

Filly got an 81 Beyer Fri night off a previous non-Ness best of 58 at Parx. Check the split times for her race - she never slowed down under a hand ride. Freak performance for a horse I owned, know, touched, saw radiographs of, etc. Simply wasn't a better horsemen's training effort, better placement, better jock - as an owner and bettor, what happened isn't acceptable or explainable.

But I respect your suggestion that the racing media won't do anything. I completely agree..... guess that's the saddest part of all and the point of my rant.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by phystech

But I respect your suggestion that the racing media won't do anything. I completely agree..... guess that's the saddest part of all and the point of my rant.

I think the point here is the racing media can't do anything. Sure, they can write the articles, but it doesn't do any good. They have all been written many times. Just insert the latest super trainer name. One misinformed article in the NYT was given more press than any 100 articles in the DRF, Bloodhorse, and Thoroughbred Times combined.

I understand the frustration. We all have it. But you are barking up the wrong tree. The people that can do something don't care.

[Calzone Lord]

Getting off the Ness subject...

here is a cut from an old DRF column that shows the amusing gossip and entertaining stories they would routinely write.

This is from a piece about horses who were expensive purchases and flopped. $20,000 in the 1890's is close to about $500,000 today adjusted for inflation. James R. Keene was one of the most powerful men on Wall Street, he owned several Hall of Fame horses, owned the winner of six different Belmont Stakes, and died worth a staggering $15 million in 1913.

Here is an amusing story about how an illiterate, black, 2nd string trainer of his got him to pay $20,000 for a horse he owned after he scared him into thinking he would beat "The Black Whirlwind" Domino. Domino was a Hall of Famer who racked up $193,550 in earnings in the 1890's.

[Scav]

1) I think its a slippery slope when you believe Penn National numbers, its like believing Lone Star #s

2) like Cm said, the people that we need to care dont, and horseman are trying, look at that match race last night at Penn, think that was coincidence

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Scav

1) I think its a slippery slope when you believe Penn National numbers, its like believing Lone Star #s

Not at all.

Penn National is one of the more straight-forward tracks for speed figure making.

They are very cut and dry all the time at Penn National.

Golden Gate is a track that is brutal for figure making -- the track repeatedly changes speed throughout the day. It's a first class pain in the ass and you're on your toes and guessing because of the small fields, the way the main track changes speed all the time, and the way they card a mix of turf and syn, not to mention sometimes they'll run two different baby races with all FTS.

Now, from GG, they go to PLN. A dirt surface where the vast majority of horses are exiting rubber form.

[10 pnt move up]

Speaking of super trainers..........is it me or have they disappeared a bit in socal? Mullins, Ted West, Dough Oneill.....who all were some of the more suspicious guys have been pedestrian for a while now.

Maybe its the elimination of the claiming races there at all but the lowest levels?

Maybe there are some new guys I am unaware of.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Speaking of super trainers..........is it me or have they disappeared a bit in socal? Mullins, Ted West, Dough Oneill.....who all were some of the more suspicious guys have been pedestrian for a while now.

Maybe its the elimination of the claiming races there at all but the lowest levels?

Maybe there are some new guys I am unaware of.

I don't think Ted West and O'Neill ever arroused any strong suspicion from serious people. Especially Ted West.

Mullins is still getting it done. He's winning at 24% this year and his new horses are overachieving all of the time. Even with his bodybuilding distractions, he's doing the work of a God with what he has.

Mullins and Mike Mitchell have been the leading alchmeists of the So. Cal circuit for a great long while now.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

I don't think Ted West and O'Neill ever arroused any strong suspicion from serious people. Especially Ted West.

Mullins is still getting it done. He's winning at 24% this year and his new horses are overachieving all of the time. Even with his bodybuilding distractions, he's doing the work of a God with what he has.

Mullins and Mike Mitchell have been the leading alchmeists of the So. Cal circuit for a great long while now.

West won at like 30% a few years back, I got a few good West stories.

I forgot about Mitchell, but it feels as if his horse move ups are not nearly as pronounced.

I was with Mitchell and a friend of mine who claimed a horse for 20k or so and moved him to 50k (back when those #'s meant something at Del Mar) and there was little doubt he was going to win (it ended up being very close), and we all scored out at 9/1.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Not at all.

Penn National is one of the more straight-forward tracks for speed figure making.

They are very cut and dry all the time at Penn National.

Golden Gate is a track that is brutal for figure making -- the track repeatedly changes speed throughout the day. It's a first class pain in the ass and you're on your toes and guessing because of the small fields, the way the main track changes speed all the time, and the way they card a mix of turf and syn, not to mention sometimes they'll run two different baby races with all FTS.

Now, from GG, they go to PLN. A dirt surface where the vast majority of horses are exiting rubber form.

I stand corrected.

[Merlinsky]

Here's a DRF article with a more in depth discussion of how the sale went down. Hyder Abad purchase. Hyderabad/Hyder Abad (depending on how they felt like spelling it that day) went for $400 as a yearling. That's around $10,000 in today's money. $30,000 would be roughly $775,000 today. Nice pinhook. From the article it sure sounds like the colt put on a show in a workout that made Keene scared enough to take it seriously.

Hyderabad/Hyder Abad apparently fell in the mud in the Futurity and nearly caused Domino to fall as well. Cooper seemed to think his colt would've won had he not fallen and the jockey spoke highly of the colt's effort before the incident. Something tells me it's not just blowing smoke up someone's arse. Overconfidence? Not sure, but I think Cooper believed it. Hyder Abad must not've broken down though because DRF's got at least one son I could find. Who knows who else because he clearly wasn't successful at stud. I can't figure out the breeding of the mare. The colt's name is Sheik, born 1896 out of Musical Gem by Dan Godfrey. Can't seem to find her dam's name.

[golfer]

I wrote this years ago HERE; as long as people continue to bet and the tracks continue to get their cut off the top, they have no incentive to care who wins or loses (sad but true). The only thing that will bring anything but lip service, is if people STOP betting.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by phystech

Try again - happy to have the horse claimed from me. I'm a claiming owner and can't think of one in 15 years I wish didn't get claimed, including this one. That isn't the issue. I made my money and the profit check cashed nicely from the private purchase. Ever done that?

Filly got an 81 Beyer Fri night off a previous non-Ness best of 58 at Parx. Check the split times for her race - she never slowed down under a hand ride. Freak performance for a horse I owned, know, touched, saw radiographs of, etc. Simply wasn't a better horsemen's training effort, better placement, better jock - as an owner and bettor, what happened isn't acceptable or explainable.

But I respect your suggestion that the racing media won't do anything. I completely agree..... guess that's the saddest part of all and the point of my rant.

Yeah, you sure seem like a person pretty happy with the profit they made.

That's the problem with whining threads. You have to make up your mind. are you going to whine, or gloat? Can't do both.

Again, you're preaching to the choir here. You're a bigshot though. Can't you make something happen?

[gamblin4ever]

I'm not defending Ness, but there are some trainers that claim a horse and make changes, getting improved results. I'm not saying he didn't JUICE her, but he took off front wraps, could've changed the diet, changed dist., etc.
This happens when a few trainers claims horses, then makes changes, just as some horses get claimed and run worse than before.

[MaTH716]

You're barking up the wrong tree being mad at the media, really what do you want them to do? You should be mad at the tracks for not being able to prove this guy is cheating. More importantly you should be mad at the sport for a lack of a governing body which is able to enforce real penalties and suspensions.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

You're barking up the wrong tree being mad at the media, really what do you want them to do? You should be mad at the tracks for not being able to prove this guy is cheating. More importantly you should be mad at the sport for a lack of a governing body which is able to enforce real penalties and suspensions.

and a lack of people at said tracks who will ban someone. you have to have your trainer cut a horses' leg off before they deny you stalls.

[Travis Stone]

Testing is usually done at the commission or state level. Tracks don't test horses or really have much to do with specific testing.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Testing is usually done at the commission or state level. Tracks don't test horses or really have much to do with specific testing.

They can deny stalls and/or entry.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

They can deny stalls and/or entry.

yep. and some trainers should have licenses revoked.
did the sport suffer when biancone(for example) wasn't training? why was he allowed to come back? what purpose did that serve? i would say none.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

They can deny stalls and/or entry.

Or at least give these guys a hard time and treat them with suspicion instead of treating them like royalty.

[phystech]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Yeah, you sure seem like a person pretty happy with the profit they made.

That's the problem with whining threads. You have to make up your mind. are you going to whine, or gloat? Can't do both.

Again, you're preaching to the choir here. You're a bigshot though. Can't you make something happen?

Nice mischaracterizations.....

I'll do what I can though but it will have to go to #2 on my list of things to do this week - #1 is to resolve the crisis between Frank Stronach and the MD horsemen....