New Thoro-Graph record?

[Revidere]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

I know she has always had a fairly big reputation, but had Royal Delta ever run a fast race before the Fleur de Lis? Who was behind her?

I kinda of thought she won the BC by default, with Havre de Grace opting for the Classic. Before that, she seemed to be an in-and-outer.

It's the Mike Smith factor.

Originally Posted by Revidere

It's the Mike Smith factor.

That reminds me of a story. I once asked Jerry Brown if he ever came accross a jockey that actually made the horses faster. He said only one. Laffit Pincay Jr. Said he did a study that showed times when the data seemed to prove that Pincay sometimes changed the number by a quarter point. Sounded rather fantastic to me but having seen Spend A Buck's Jersey Derby live. I was in no position to argue.

Is there a TG rating for European Horses? If so, what would Frankel get after todays performance.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by helicopter11

Is there a TG rating for European Horses? If so, what would Frankel get after todays performance.

Probably not very fast. At least not nearly as fast as you'd think.

TG has European horses slow. Most Euro's will come over here and improve by leaps and bounds on TG.

[Thunder Gulch]

Brown makes a compelling argument on horses getting faster based on the cushion on the tracks getting deeper through the years. At the end of the day, it is really difficult to believe today's classified allowance horses are faster than Secretariat and Bid, but it's an interesting look at some of the more sophisticated factors the TG guys use. I think there is some evidence and the breeding of today probably supports Brown's theory that brilliance is taking over where stamina was just as important 40 years ago.

I guess it really doesn't matter for handicapping purposes because we're only talking about speeds relative to the current competition.

[Thunder Gulch]

Originally Posted by helicopter11

Is there a TG rating for European Horses? If so, what would Frankel get after todays performance.

So hard to put TG or any speed figure on the Euro's because of pacing. Frankel's front running or pressing styles help the figure, but it's still a highly subjective task to reach the Timeform ratings.

In their defense, TG strongly discounted the Euro Turf horses last year going into the Breeders Cup when most said they were a cut above, and if you listened to Brown there was a jackpot to be made.

[cakes44]

Originally Posted by Thunder Gulch

So hard to put TG or any speed figure on the Euro's because of pacing. Frankel's front running or pressing styles help the figure, but it's still a highly subjective task to reach the Timeform ratings.

In their defense, TG strongly discounted the Euro Turf horses last year going into the Breeders Cup when most said they were a cut above, and if you listened to Brown there was a jackpot to be made.

So other than last year, how have they been on such predictions for the BC, if anyone knows/remembers?

[Round Pen]

Originally Posted by cakes44

So other than last year, how have they been on such predictions for the BC, if anyone knows/remembers?

Not sure but you can actually check this out on the Thorograph web site, its free to do I think they have the BC races archived back to the year 2000

[Calzone Lord]

I seem to remember the Euro turf horses doing well last year.

In all of the races where they looked better than the Americans on paper, they got the job done. And with the right horses.

I didn't like anything else they sent over for the Mile besides Goldikova and she was going to be overbet. TG had Court Vision the 11th fastest horse in the race. Not sure how anyone could have found him. He was given up on by Dutrow Jr.