1973 Preakness (UPDATE: Maryland accepts 1:53.0)

[DaTruth]

I'm reserving judgment on whether Secretariat was better than Zenyatta until this matter is resolved.

[Calzone Lord]

John Edwards liked to talk about "two America's" ... you really did have two Secretariat's.

He was a GREAT, GREAT horse overall ... but also a hot and cold type horse as a 3yo.

The defeats in the Wood, Whitney, and Woodward at age 3 (a sweep Easy Goer accomplished at age 3)

Secretariat also performed moderately in his early season wins.

He came into the Kentucky Derby with Ragozin Sheet figures of 11.00, 6.25, and 12.00 in his 3 Derby preps. Spectacular Bid was running his Derby preps in the 2.50 to 4.50 range and finished his 2yo season supersonic fast. Affirmed was in the 6.50 to 9.25 range for his preps. Slew in the 7.25 to 10.00 range for his preps.

Secretariat, despite being 2yo champion, was not highweight on the mythical Derby Handicap. Also, he almost certainly would not have been the favorite in the Kentucky Derby if he was uncoupled.

A tooth abscess was bothering him -- and almost certainly the reason he was performing below par in his Derby preps. It got treated after the Wood Memorial and his Ragozin figure improved to a 0.75 in the Kentucky Derby.

In the rest of the century -- no one approached Secretariat's Derby Ragozin figure:

Secretariat: 0.75
Spectacular Bid: 1.75
Unbridled: 2.00
Spend A Buck: 2.25
Silver Charm: 3.00

He had a killer Triple Crown series -- and ran some killer races afterwards.

However, he ran five races at age three that weren't up to par with his standard.

[Calzone Lord]

Here was BY FAR the best stallion from Secretariat's excellent crop.




He simply couldn't stay. Mr. Prospector had a loose lead at Keeneland in a good overnight ALW race in his first route attempt -- he spit the bit.

He spit the bit again in a slow edition of the Derby Trial.

Much like Elusive Quality -- his best game seemed to be sprinting 6 furlongs at Gulfstream Park. In just his 3rd career start -- he set a 6f track record at GP that stood until Artax broke it in the Breeders Cup Sprint.

[tector]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Much like Elusive Quality -- his best game seemed to be sprinting 6 furlongs at Gulfstream Park. In just his 3rd career start -- he set a 6f track record at GP that stood until Artax broke it in the Breeders Cup Sprint.

Artax--I think was IC's second favorite horse, just BARELY behind the four-legged IC.

Just think, IC could have been here as "Artax". What a funny world we live in....

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by tector

Artax--I think was IC's second favorite horse, just BARELY behind the four-legged IC.

Just think, IC could have been here as "Artax". What a funny world we live in....

He hated Randy Bradshaw, I think.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by tector

Artax--I think was IC's second favorite horse, just BARELY behind the four-legged IC.

Just think, IC could have been here as "Artax". What a funny world we live in....

Artax was a freaking beast, and had he not been trained by that incompetent fool, who knows how good he would have been. I still think that horse was at least as good routing as he was sprinting, too.

However, he was not in the same league as IC.

I was a big fan of Old Trieste from that crop too.

I never would have chosen Artax as a screen name here. I'd probably have chosen Rahy or Cees Tizzy.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Artax was a freaking beast, and had he not been trained by that incompetent fool, who knows how good he would have been. I still think that horse was at least as good routing as he was sprinting, too.

However, he was not in the same league as IC.

I was a big fan of Old Trieste from that crop too.

I never would have chosen Artax as a screen name here. I'd probably have chosen Rahy or Cees Tizzy.

Or maybe Behrens

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Or maybe Behrens

LOL. Yeah.

Your memory is sometimes pretty amazing.

Hey, check this out..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GpdU...ayer_embedded#

[FATPIANO]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

John Edwards liked to talk about "two America's" ... you really did have two Secretariat's.

He was a GREAT, GREAT horse overall ... but also a hot and cold type horse as a 3yo.

The defeats in the Wood, Whitney, and Woodward at age 3 (a sweep Easy Goer accomplished at age 3)

Secretariat also performed moderately in his early season wins.

He came into the Kentucky Derby with Ragozin Sheet figures of 11.00, 6.25, and 12.00 in his 3 Derby preps. Spectacular Bid was running his Derby preps in the 2.50 to 4.50 range and finished his 2yo season supersonic fast. Affirmed was in the 6.50 to 9.25 range for his preps. Slew in the 7.25 to 10.00 range for his preps.

Secretariat, despite being 2yo champion, was not highweight on the mythical Derby Handicap. Also, he almost certainly would not have been the favorite in the Kentucky Derby if he was uncoupled.

A tooth abscess was bothering him -- and almost certainly the reason he was performing below par in his Derby preps. It got treated after the Wood Memorial and his Ragozin figure improved to a 0.75 in the Kentucky Derby.

In the rest of the century -- no one approached Secretariat's Derby Ragozin figure:

Secretariat: 0.75
Spectacular Bid: 1.75
Unbridled: 2.00
Spend A Buck: 2.25
Silver Charm: 3.00

He had a killer Triple Crown series -- and ran some killer races afterwards.

However, he ran five races at age three that weren't up to par with his standard.

Speaking of The Bid's 2yr old season, did he not win 3 grade 1 races at 3 different tracks in a 3 week time, while setting a track record that still stands today at 1 1/6?

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by FATPIANO

Speaking of The Bid's 2yr old season, did he not win 3 grade 1 races at 3 different tracks in a 3 week time, while setting a track record that still stands today at 1 1/6?

Yes. 1:41.60 for 8.5 furlongs still stands as Laurel's track record.

He won the race by 8.5 lengths over General Assembly.

Clever Trick (winner of 18 of 29 lifetime starts. Sire of the outstanding horse and sire Phone Trick) finished 3rd beaten more than 20 lengths in that Laurel Futurity.



Tim The Tiger -- a Grade 1 winner that season -- checked home 4th.

Final time of some famous Laurel Futurity winners on dirt:

Spectacular Bid: 1:41.60
Devil's Bag: 1:42.20 (2nd fastest edition ever)
Secretariat: 1:42.80
Honest Pleasure: 1:42.80
Count Fleet: 1:43.40
Riva Ridge: 1:43.40
Tapit: 1:43.80
Affirmed: 1:44.20
Cure The Blues: 1:44.40
Deputy Minister: 1:44.60
Bet Twice: 1:45.00

[FATPIANO]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Yes. 1:41.60 for 8.5 furlongs still stands as Laurel's track record.

He won the race by 8.5 lengths over General Assembly.

Clever Trick (winner of 18 of 29 lifetime starts. Sire of the outstanding horse and sire Phone Trick) finished 3rd beaten more than 20 lengths in that Laurel Futurity.



Tim The Tiger -- a Grade 1 winner that season -- checked home 4th.

Final time of some famous Laurel Futurity winners on dirt:

Spectacular Bid: 1:41.60
Devil's Bag: 1:42.20 (2nd fastest edition ever)
Secretariat: 1:42.80
Honest Pleasure: 1:42.80
Count Fleet: 1:43.40
Riva Ridge: 1:43.40
Tapit: 1:43.80
Affirmed: 1:44.20
Cure The Blues: 1:44.40
Deputy Minister: 1:44.60
Bet Twice: 1:45.00

WOW...............YOUR KNOWLEDGE IS AMAZING. I think after The Bid won those 3 grade 1's, he actually ran again that year , I think 2 weeks later and won, Do you know what race it was?

[Calzone Lord]

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...50&postcount=6

[FATPIANO]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...50&postcount=6

Thanks, Your knowledge is very impressive, has any other Champion been undefeated from 7 furlongs to 1 1/4 miles? and just curious as to your opinion on where you would rank The Bid with all the greats?