Horse of the World

[Calzone Lord]

Obviously earning such a title has never been a goal for a race horse in an extremely long time.

That title was the goal for Reigh Count -- owned by John Hertz (Hertz-rent-a-car)

Reigh Count won 7 of 8 starts at age 3 in 1928 and dominated the Kentucky Derby as the favorite. He defeated elders later in the year in races like the Jockey Club Gold Cup and Saratoga Cup.

He was sent to Europe as a 4-year-old to "win the title of Horse of the World" and managed just one win in five starts on the Turf. However, he did win the Coronation Cup and finish 2nd in the Ascot Gold Cup in those five starts -- both races are still Euro Group 1 races to this day.

How many horses have we seen who could have possibly earned such a title if campaigned to do so?

Sakhee obviously was the type of performer who could have done it -- but he was fragile.

Swain was as tough and consistent as horses come -- he was voted champion older horse in England at age 5 and 6 and champion older horse in Ireland at age 6 -- and in his lone two career dirt starts he was beaten a dirty nose by good Hall of Famer Silver Charm in the Dubai World Cup and should have won over the deepest BC Classic field ever if not for a bizarre ride from Dettori.

Giant's Causeway, Dubai Millennium, and Singspeil are the only three other Euro's I can think of who showed that they had the ability to do it.

Recently, our best dirt horses rarely get a shot on turf -- and it seems doubtful any of them could just show up in Europe and establish themselves as a top grass horse.

[richard burch]

how about frankel or black caviar, where do they fit in?

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by richard burch

how about frankel or black caviar, where do they fit in?

Neither has ever attempted to run on dirt.

I think Frankel would probably be very mediocre on dirt.

Frankel's sire Galileo bombed on dirt in the BC Classic and finished well behind Tiznow and Sakhee ... and Danehill on the bottom is not encouraging at all either.

I also think Black Caviar would likely perform terrible on dirt relative to how elite she is on turf.

[richard burch]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Neither has ever attempted to run on dirt.

I think Frankel would probably be very mediocre on dirt.

Frankel's sire Galileo bombed on dirt in the BC Classic and finished well behind Tiznow and Sakhee ... and Danehill on the bottom is not encouraging at all either.

I also think Black Caviar would likely perform terrible on dirt relative to how elite she is on turf.

sorry, i guess i was missing your point. my thought was which horse would be qualified to "win the title of Horse of the World"

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by richard burch

sorry, i guess i was missing your point. my thought was which horse would be qualified to "win the title of Horse of the World"

I think to earn such a title -- you would need to be establish as the top turf horse in Europe and win a race like the Breeders Cup Classic on dirt. Or, be established as the top dirt horse in the United States and win a race like the Arc or possibly even just dominate any proper Euro Group 1 or win a race like the Dubai World Cup over the Tapeta.

[Calzone Lord]

Giant's Causeway for instance ... he never raced after the age of 3... but had he beaten Tiznow in the BC Classic -- I think he might have had a claim to "Horse of the World"

[Calzone Lord]

Sakhee was a very fragile horse ... but he was one hell of a performer.

Here was his entire 4-year-old season




He won a Group 1 in England by 7 lengths -- came back and won the Arc by 6 lengths ... huge margins against top class big fields.

He had Tiznow beat in the BC Classic in his first dirt try -- but didn't put him away and lost by a nose.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Obviously earning such a title has never been a goal for a race horse in an extremely long time.

That title was the goal for Reigh Count -- owned by John Hertz (Hertz-rent-a-car)

Reigh Count won 7 of 8 starts at age 3 in 1928 and dominated the Kentucky Derby as the favorite. He defeated elders later in the year in races like the Jockey Club Gold Cup and Saratoga Cup.

He was sent to Europe as a 4-year-old to "win the title of Horse of the World" and managed just one win in five starts on the Turf. However, he did win the Coronation Cup and finish 2nd in the Ascot Gold Cup in those five starts -- both races are still Euro Group 1 races to this day.

How many horses have we seen who could have possibly earned such a title if campaigned to do so?

Sakhee obviously was the type of performer who could have done it -- but he was fragile.

Swain was as tough and consistent as horses come -- he was voted champion older horse in England at age 5 and 6 and champion older horse in Ireland at age 6 -- and in his lone two career dirt starts he was beaten a dirty nose by good Hall of Famer Silver Charm in the Dubai World Cup and should have won over the deepest BC Classic field ever if not for a bizarre ride from Dettori.

Giant's Causeway, Dubai Millennium, and Singspeil are the only three other Euro's I can think of who showed that they had the ability to do it.

Recently, our best dirt horses rarely get a shot on turf -- and it seems doubtful any of them could just show up in Europe and establish themselves as a top grass horse.

Your question is who do we think may have been able if campaigned to do so. The first name to jump out to me was Candy Ride. Some others are Secretariat, Blushing John, Lure, and Arazi. What kind of record did Arcangues have in Europe? What about Jolypha? Ibn Bey? Even GC, Sakhee, and Swain all lost here, they ran winning races and that means more to me than an actual winner that didn't run so great. Give me their Classics over Drosselmeyer’s any day.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Your question is who do we think may have been able if campaigned to do so. The first name to jump out to me was Candy Ride. Some others are Secretariat, Blushing John, Lure, and Arazi. What kind of record did Arcangues have in Europe? What about Jolypha? Ibn Bey? Even GC, Sakhee, and Swain all lost here, they ran winning races and that means more to me than an actual winner that didn't run so great. Give me their Classics over Drosselmeyer’s any day.

Candy Ride -- even to a way more dramatic extent than Sakhee -- was fragile.

True, Candy Ride was also an excellent performer on both surfaces -- but I have my doubts about him being able to win a top class grass race in Europe.

Arcangues wasn't a champion caliber turf horse -- not in Europe and not in his turf races here either.

Swain was probably the horse best cut-out to be 'Horse of the World' of anything to race in the last 25 years.

He was a perfect 5-for-5 going into the Arc as a 3-year-old and finished 3rd. Group 1 winner on turf at ages 4, 5, and 6. Champion older turf horse in England and Ireland at ages 5 and 6. Ran two great races on dirt against elite American dirt horses.

He won 10-of-22 lifetime -- but was haunted by only achieving placings in the biggest International races to American observers.

Arc (3rd)
Breeders Cup Turf (3rd)
Breeders Cup Classic (3rd)
Dubai World Cup (2nd)

The Group 1 King George has been run since 1951 at Royal Ascot -- and he's one of only two horses in history to win it more than once.

In Swain's 1998 King George win -- English Derby winner High Rise was 2nd. Royal Anthem and Daylami finished 3rd and 4th -- they absolutely dominated the Breeders Cup Turf at Gulfstream, finishing 1st and 2nd and Daylami getting a record 118 Turf Beyer.

In Swain's 1997 King George win -- the 2nd place finisher was the mighty Pilsudski. A horse who won 6 Group 1's including the Breeders Cup Turf, Japan Cup, Four Euro Group 1's, and two second place finishes in the Arc. The 3rd place finisher Helissio won 5 Group 1's including the Arc. 4th place finisher Singspiel won the Japan Cup, Dubai World Cup, he also won a couple of Group 1's in Europe and he won an Eclipse award as the North American champion turf horse of 1996.

Swain's sire Nashwan won 6 of 7 lifetime starts (including the English Derby) -- his dam Love Smitten beat Lady Secret in the Grade 1 Apple Blossom on dirt. He was the rare horse who inherited a love of both surfaces.

No horse I've ever seen has actually earned the title Horse of the World -- but because of Swain's elite dual surface ability, consistency, and longevity... he'd be the right horse for the job. Obviously he would have steam-rolled horses like Blame or Drosselmeyer on dirt.

The quality of competition he faced, both on turf and dirt, is truly incredible. He was a top class horse for four straight years at a time when Europe and America both enjoyed its deepest older horse divisions of the last 20 years.

[cakes44]

I'm sure Ghostzapper would have run on turf and run some serious animals into the ground. Wasn't exactly durable enough to put together the type of campaign needed for the mythical HOW title though.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by cakes44

I'm sure Ghostzapper would have run on turf and run some serious animals into the ground. Wasn't exactly durable enough to put together the type of campaign needed for the mythical HOW title though.

I dunno. I have my doubts about Ghostzapper as a turf horse. Awesome Again doesn't exactly make you think of turf.

Obviously Cigar could be ruled out. Mineshaft as well since he came from Europe and did nothing there.

A horse like Sunday Silence had excellent turf breeding and was an excellent turf sire. Secretariat handled turf outstandingly -- I assume he could have been very tough over there.

I love this horse. Her 10th win still gives me a tingling sensation up my leg whenever I watch it.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

I love this horse. Her 10th win still gives me a tingling sensation up my leg whenever I watch it.

Yes --- an undefeated record does that for most women.

And she's even beating the finest sprinters Aussie land has to offer.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

In Swain's 1997 King George win -- the 2nd place finisher was the mighty Pilsudski. A horse who won 6 Group 1's including the Breeders Cup Turf, Japan Cup, Four Euro Group 1's, and two second place finishes in the Arc. The 3rd place finisher Helissio won 5 Group 1's including the Arc. 4th place finisher Singspiel won the Japan Cup, Dubai World Cup, he also won a couple of Group 1's in Europe and he won an Eclipse award as the North American champion turf horse of 1996.

Here's a better idea of how tough this race was ...

In his last five starts, Singspiel had just won Grade 1 Canadian International by 2 lengths. Finished 2nd as the even money favorite in the Breeders Cup Turf. Won the Japan Cup at 6/1. Won the $4 million Dubai World Cup on the dirt. And Won the Group 1 Coronation Cup by 5 lengths at Epsom.



Off those five races -- he went off at odds of 4-to-1 in the 1997 King George!!! Think that was a tough field?

[Alabama Stakes]

I'm sure, if given the chance, Zenyatta would have mowed down anyone, on any surface at any distance, on any continenet. Queen of the world, Hoss of the world

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

I'm sure, if given the chance, Zenyatta would have mowed down anyone, on any surface at any distance, on any continenet. Queen of the world, Hoss of the world

Pretty unlikely.

She got a massive pace setup in the Breeders Cup Classic at 10 furlongs and still didn't win. The winner and 3rd place finishers of that BC Classic both were beaten with disdainful ease by a loose lead Haynesfield in their prior start. The race itself barely went faster than the BC Juvenile.

Zenyatta probably would have been a tough turf horse and she was our most accomplished synthetic horse of all-time. She didn't travel much and had soft campaigns against extreme cream puff competition.

[Alabama Stakes]

how about counting how many hosses she passed out of how many she ran against.

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Yes --- an undefeated record does that for most women.

And she's even beating the finest sprinters Aussie land has to offer.

And she's sparking that Aussie-Brit machismo nationalism b.s.

I hope she breaks the track record at Ascot and that reptilian skank overlord is there to watch it live.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

how about counting how many hosses she passed out of how many she ran against.

She didn't have any early speed at all and she faced A LOT of very mediocre competition.

You think Swain would have any trouble passing Blame or any of the other horses she beat?

Here's Swain in the 1998 Breeders Cup Classic ... note that the longshot in the gold that you see fading to finish 9th out of 10 is a horse named Arch -- the sire of Blame and dam sire of I'll Have Another.

That was a REAL field of proper superstar handicap horses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfOng-jaIh0

[declansharbor]

Doug, how good could Barbaro have been if they kept him on the lawn do you think? Thx.