Derby Pace

[Calzone Lord]

I haven't had time to do any work and make my own pace figure for the day yet --- but the Moss Pace figure for the Derby is back.

The opening half: 91 Moss (translates to a 96 Beyer) and the figure was +15 (or +41 Beyer points) faster than par

The opening 6fs: 94 Moss (translates to a 104 Beyer) and the figure was +12 (or +33 Beyer points) faster than par

The opening mile: 96 Moss (translates to a 109 Beyer) and the figure was +7 (or +19 Beyer points) faster than par


Pacesetter Bodemeister's form looks like this:



On the Beyer scale:

His Arkansas Derby: 76-93-101-108
His Kentucky Derby: 96-104-109-99


I hope they point Bodemeister to the Belmont. He's got that insanely good stamina breeding...sired by Belmont winner Empire Maker, his 2nd dam is an Ap. Indy out of Roberto mare. The added distance will be a huge, huge plus and he won't have to deal with any runoff sprinters.

[parsixfarms]

From a pace figure and final figure perspective, how does Bodemeister's effort yesterday compare to Spend a Buck's Derby?

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

From a pace figure and final figure perspective, how does Bodemeister's effort yesterday compare to Spend a Buck's Derby?

It's a question that is impossible to answer unless you have charts and past performances for the prep races that year. If I was trapped in the Keeneland Library with four hours to kill I could do it.

Spend A Buck was loose on an unpressured lead through a 23 flat quarter -- Bodemeister was head-to-head with a sprinter through a 22 1/5th first quarter.

I didn't get to see a lot of Spend A Buck's races ... but Bodemeister is the type of horse who can go 49 for a half so long as he isn't being challenged for the lead.

[cmorioles]

I remember going to the new Garden State Park to watch Spend A Buck win the Cherry Hill Mile and the Garden State Stakes, both times drubbing the Maryland based and King Leatherbury trained I Am the Game. He was going to be the biggest bet of my life in the Derby at the time, which probably was about $20. However, since I was turning 18 the next day and going in the Air Force a few days later, I got suckered into spending all my time with my girlfriend and/or partying.

Of course I never saw her again. If I did, I'd be sure to tell her I haven't forgiven her for costing me $82.

[Calzone Lord]

Spend A Buck's form for the '85 Derby.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Spend A Buck's form for the '85 Derby.

Can you imagine a horse running today on March 23, April 6th, and April 20th and then the Derby? Trainers today suck.

[outofthebox]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Can you imagine a horse running today on March 23, April 6th, and April 20th and then the Derby? Trainers today suck.

And all the bullets in between. Gotta love it....

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Can you imagine a horse running today on March 23, April 6th, and April 20th and then the Derby? Trainers today suck.

Look at those names he was running against too.

Oyyy.

[blackthroatedwind]

Pancho Villa paid around $35 in that Bay Shore as a vintage " D Wayne off the Plane. "

Those were the days!

[DaTruth]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

It's a question that is impossible to answer unless you have charts and past performances for the prep races that year. If I was trapped in the Keeneland Library with four hours to kill I could do it.

Spend A Buck was loose on an unpressured lead through a 23 flat quarter -- Bodemeister was head-to-head with a sprinter through a 22 1/5th first quarter.

I didn't get to see a lot of Spend A Buck's races ... but Bodemeister is the type of horse who can go 49 for a half so long as he isn't being challenged for the lead.

The track was playing pretty fast the day Spend A Buck won the Derby. I recall a Donald Winfree filly breaking her maiden that day running 6fs in 1:09 and 2/5ths.

Addendum: Checked the chart. Winfree had a filly who broke her maiden that day, but it was at 4.5 furlongs. Another old FG trainer, Billy Borders, had his Bold and Vibrant win a nw2x in 1:09 3/5. The Neil Drysdale trained Flying Rumor won her debut in 1:09 4/5.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I remember going to the new Garden State Park to watch Spend A Buck win the Cherry Hill Mile and the Garden State Stakes, both times drubbing the Maryland based and King Leatherbury trained I Am the Game. He was going to be the biggest bet of my life in the Derby at the time, which probably was about $20. However, since I was turning 18 the next day and going in the Air Force a few days later, I got suckered into spending all my time with my girlfriend and/or partying.

Of course I never saw her again. If I did, I'd be sure to tell her I haven't forgiven her for costing me $82.

Spend A Buck only paid $6.00 to win at Delaware Park. Had you been living by Playfair -- you'd be kicking yourself about that $16.20 win payoff you could have had.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by DaTruth

The track was playing pretty fast the day Spend A Buck won the Derby. I recall a Donald Winfree filly breaking her maiden that day running 6fs in 1:09 and 2/5ths.

Addendum: Checked the chart. Winfree had a filly who broke her maiden that day, but it was at 4.5 furlongs. Another old FG trainer, Billy Borders, had his Bold and Vibrant win a nw2x in 1:09 3/5. The Neil Drysdale trained Flying Rumor won her debut in 1:09 4/5.

Yep. Here's a later form of the two first-time-starters who won on '85 Derby day.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Pancho Villa paid around $35 in that Bay Shore as a vintage " D Wayne off the Plane. "

Those were the days!

Easy money!

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Yep. Here's a later form of the two first-time-starters who won on '85 Derby day.

Deal Price and Copier. Both very nice Relaunch fillies that I bet in their msw wins. I made a killing betting those Glen Hill Farm Relaunch babies in his first two crops.

Flying Rumor was a pretty decent filly.

[outofthebox]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Easy money!

Especially coming off a bang up 2nd in an allowance race to speed freak Phone Trick. Those were pre beyer days in the form. The sophisticated NY bettors wouldn't allow that to happen today...

[PatCummings]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Can you imagine a horse running today on March 23, April 6th, and April 20th and then the Derby? Trainers today suck.

Or maybe it's just that most American trainers started copying Bobby Frankel's style of timing race starts.

[santana]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Spend A Buck only paid $6.00 to win at Delaware Park. Had you been living by Playfair -- you'd be kicking yourself about that $16.20 win payoff you could have had.

DRUGS...you are a freaken trip, finding all these facts...lol...while your at it, can you get me all the different payoffs from the Sea Hero year. I remember being at Delta Downs betting the race and getting 2 different payouts for him.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Can you imagine a horse running today on March 23, April 6th, and April 20th and then the Derby? Trainers today suck.

Yup, of course the breeding today doesnt help, broken down horses creating broken down horses.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

Or maybe it's just that most American trainers started copying Bobby Frankel's style of timing race starts.

To me, they are one and the same.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by outofthebox

Especially coming off a bang up 2nd in an allowance race to speed freak Phone Trick. Those were pre beyer days in the form. The sophisticated NY bettors wouldn't allow that to happen today...

Yeah man! And I loved Spend A Buck, but I couldn't see him beating Pancho going 7f.