Speaking of things that will proably eventually kill you...

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Commercially raised meats are garbage. Thus, any study comparing the health effects of meats to a vegetable based diet, if based on very typical meats, is meaningless.

Properly raised meats are, in fact, a health food. Feed lot meat is worse than eating garbage.

Doctors are almost always wrong when it comes to dietary issues, as their training in medical school 1. includes next to nothing about nutrition and 2. what little they are given comes from biased sources, mainly from bogus studies.

One thing most people fail to consider about vegetarianism, or a mostly plant based diet.

There are crucial fat soluble vitamins that are next to impossible to get from plants. Vitamin D (I know, not really a vitamin), PREFORMED vitamin A (carotenes are not efficiently converted to vitamin A), and K (unless you like grazing on fresh grasses).

These nutrients are badly lacking in the American diet and the best source for them is grass fed meats and dairy. I am talking about food sources, as obviously you can make your own vitamin D.

Also, some of the B vitamins are difficult to obtain from plants.

I LOVE that people who eat primarily veggies often end up taking nutritional yeast to get B12. What most people don't realize is that B12 is added to yeast.

Yet another thing to consider...

Almost all plants are grown in soils that have become badly depleted in important minerals. You might think by choosing organic veggies that you are getting sufficient minerals, but the sad truth is, even organic veggies are badly under mineralized.

So, you need to eat A LOT of them to get anywhere near the minerals you need. The flip side of this is that most plants produce some sort of chemical defenses, than in small amounts are very beneficial to our health, but in larger amounts are toxic.

Then again, most plants that we eat have been selectively bred for a long time to minimize these substances. Notice how few people enjoy eating bitter plants anymore?

Me? I love ocean veggies, like kelp, dulse, etc. Absolutely loaded with minerals, and no toxic issues. I also like to collect wild plants and mushrooms, but that is not really feasible for most people.

I know I mentioned this book in a previous post, but I really think you would find this book interesting. At least look at it's product page on Amazon, read what it is about, and maybe read some of the user reviews. It's well written and loaded with lot's of really interesting information, and many delicious and easy recipes.

http://www.amazon.com/Nourishing-Tra...5712024&sr=8-1

Like any topic that tends to draw the zealot like types, one needs to keep an open perspective about these things. If you see any reviews that might be over the top (not saying that there are any for sure), take them with a grain of salt.

It's a wonderful book that could potentially let you see things in a different light.

Thanks for the link. I read about 20 pages. I agree with most of the things they are saying. The guy (Dr. Al Sears) that I get a lot of my information from says most of the same things that it says in that book.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Thanks for the link. I read about 20 pages. I agree with most of the things they are saying. The guy (Dr. Al Sears) that I get a lot of my information from says most of the same things that it says in that book.

I suggest you buy the book. While there are similarities between Sears and the NT book, there are going to be some sharp differences.

The stuff you weren't agreeing with?? Could you be disagreeing because it runs counter to the information you learned from Dr. Sears, or someone like him?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

I suggest you buy the book. While there are similarities between Sears and the NT book, there are going to be some sharp differences.

The stuff you weren't agreeing with?? Could you be disagreeing because it runs counter to the information you learned from Dr. Sears, or someone like him?

I have no doubt that grass-fed beef is much healthier than regular beef. But I'm still not convinced that you can eat as much of it as you like.

Another huge study just came out showing how bad read meat is for you. Maybe grass-fed beef really is not bad at all. But I would need to see some hard evidence before I would take that leap of faith and recommend that people make red meat (of any type) a big part of their diet.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/mar...-meat-20120313

The head researcher was asked about grass-fed meat:

How about grass-fed beef? Does the way the animals are raised make a difference?

"We don't know for sure. In this study we were investigating red meat as it is consumed in the United States, which is mostly lot-fed, grain-fed beef. I'm quite sure we would not have enough people consuming mostly grass-fed beef to be able to look at that on its own.

There are some differences. Omega-3 fatty acid levels are somewhat higher in the grass-fed beef. But if someone's getting other sources of omega-3 fatty acids — if they're having fish once or twice a week — the additional amount probably won't make too much difference.

The total fat may be a bit lower. But we don't see that the fat per se is really related to the risk of getting heart disease or cancer. Cholesterol is more in the lean part of the red meat, so that's going to be just as high and maybe even higher in the grass-fed animals.

I think it would be nice to be able to study grass-fed beef directly, but I think in the meantime it's reasonable to assume that the answer is probably not going to be very different from what we saw here."

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/mar...llett-20120324

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I have no doubt that grass-fed beef is much healthier than regular beef. But I'm still not convinced that you can eat as much of it as you like.

Another huge study just came out showing how bad read meat is for you. Maybe grass-fed beef really is not bad at all. But I would need to see some hard evidence before I would take that leap of faith and recommend that people make red meat (of any type) a big part of their diet.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/mar...-meat-20120313

The head researcher was asked about grass-fed meat:

How about grass-fed beef? Does the way the animals are raised make a difference?

"We don't know for sure. In this study we were investigating red meat as it is consumed in the United States, which is mostly lot-fed, grain-fed beef. I'm quite sure we would not have enough people consuming mostly grass-fed beef to be able to look at that on its own.

There are some differences. Omega-3 fatty acid levels are somewhat higher in the grass-fed beef. But if someone's getting other sources of omega-3 fatty acids — if they're having fish once or twice a week — the additional amount probably won't make too much difference.

The total fat may be a bit lower. But we don't see that the fat per se is really related to the risk of getting heart disease or cancer. Cholesterol is more in the lean part of the red meat, so that's going to be just as high and maybe even higher in the grass-fed animals.

I think it would be nice to be able to study grass-fed beef directly, but I think in the meantime it's reasonable to assume that the answer is probably not going to be very different from what we saw here."

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/mar...llett-20120324

There are plenty of real world studies and experiences with grass fed meats that prove they are healthy. They just are not put into the mainstream focus because of what it would do to certain industries.

Cholesterol is a vitally important substance in our bodies, and if your body needs high cholesterol, it makes it, regardless if you eliminate it from your diet. Cholesterol as boogeyman will not last that much longer.

The reason cholesterol collects in arteries of people with 'heart disease' is because it's doing it's job, which is repairing diseased or damaged tissue.

Blaming cholesterol for heart disease is just like blaming skid marks at an accident scene for the accident. IE, cholesterol is there as a RESULT of heart disease.

Cholesterol drugs are both highly toxic and extremely lucrative, which is again why you won't see this in any mainstream source. If you want more information, LMK and I'll send you all sorts of links.

All of this, and a lot more, are discussed in that book (as well as in her foundations other literature/website). Things like this are what you will not see in Dr. Sears book.

I'll make you a deal. Buy that book from Amazon. If you read it and think it's full of crap, or you don't feel like you are going to get anything out of it, I'll buy it from you, provided you are willing to ship it to me and you haven't damaged it.

Give it a fair shake, maybe try a thing or three in it, and if you want to go wild, maybe learn the experiences of others who have adopted some of the changes espoused in the book. Heck, just read through some of the Amazon user reviews.

I personally know quite a few people who have tried it and have changed their health for the better, reversing multiple health conditions and getting an overall much better sense of well being.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

There are plenty of real world studies and experiences with grass fed meats that prove they are healthy. They just are not put into the mainstream focus because of what it would do to certain industries.

Cholesterol is a vitally important substance in our bodies, and if your body needs high cholesterol, it makes it, regardless if you eliminate it from your diet. Cholesterol as boogeyman will not last that much longer.

The reason cholesterol collects in arteries of people with 'heart disease' is because it's doing it's job, which is repairing diseased or damaged tissue.

Blaming cholesterol for heart disease is just like blaming skid marks at an accident scene for the accident. IE, cholesterol is there as a RESULT of heart disease.

Cholesterol drugs are both highly toxic and extremely lucrative, which is again why you won't see this in any mainstream source. If you want more information, LMK and I'll send you all sorts of links.

All of this, and a lot more, are discussed in that book (as well as in her foundations other literature/website). Things like this are what you will not see in Dr. Sears book.

I'll make you a deal. Buy that book from Amazon. If you read it and think it's full of crap, or you don't feel like you are going to get anything out of it, I'll buy it from you, provided you are willing to ship it to me and you haven't damaged it.

Give it a fair shake, maybe try a thing or three in it, and if you want to go wild, maybe learn the experiences of others who have adopted some of the changes espoused in the book. Heck, just read through some of the Amazon user reviews.

I personally know quite a few people who have tried it and have changed their health for the better, reversing multiple health conditions and getting an overall much better sense of well being.

I think you are thinking of a different Dr. Sears. The famous one is Barry Sears. That is not who I am talking about. I am talking about Al Sears, who is a huge meat-eater (grass-fed).

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I think you are thinking of a different Dr. Sears. The famous one is Barry Sears. That is not who I am talking about. I am talking about Al Sears, who is a huge meat-eater (grass-fed).

I know who he is, as well as Barry (The Zone).

I have not read a lot of his work, but from what I've read and from what you've said here, his information is lacking somewhat in this area.

Buy the book.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

I know who he is, as well as Barry (The Zone).

I have not read a lot of his work, but from what I've read and from what you've said here, his information is lacking somewhat in this area.

Buy the book.

This is from Al Sears. It is very similar to some of the stuff in your book:

"You know I believe that you should imitate our native ancestors and make a variety of protein the center of all your meals.

But it’s not ok to gobble down just any kind of protein. The type you eat is important, too. Or maybe I should say, the nature of the protein.

You see, protein is damaged by heat. You “denature” protein when you heat it for too long, or when you cook it in very high heat. The nature of the protein changes.

This is what happens when they process or “cure” meat. In fact, it’s how they sterilize medical supplies and instruments. They heat them to an extreme, which denatures proteins in any bacteria that may be there, destroying them.

Pre-cooked and pre-packaged meats like hot dogs, smoked meats, lunch meats, bacon and breakfast sausage, pepperoni and lox, and especially soy proteins, are all “cured” the same way.

They’ve had their proteins sterilized. Their nutritional value has been ruined. And they’re not what I would consider healthy. And when your body breaks down these cured proteins, a byproduct can combine with the nitrites used in meat processing to make nitrosamines.

There are over 300 different forms of nitrosamines, and over 90 percent are cancer-causing.

So when it comes to eating protein, I recommend following these two steps:

Step 1: Eat protein from a variety of natural sources. That can be anything from eating a raw egg every morning like my father would, to having a scoop of grass-fed whey protein from a pure and trusted source.

Besides having undenatured protein that will not form nitrosamines, they are the most bio-available kinds of protein. The least bio-available are vegetable proteins from beans, for example. But those are still better for you than protein from cured or processed meat.

Milk also has protein, but pasteurized milk protein is denatured. Whole, raw milk still has its proteins intact.

Stick with meat from grass fed animals like beef, buffalo and elk. Also, eat wild-caught fish, free-range chicken and turkey, and cage-free whole eggs. These are the purest forms of protein you can get, and have the most nutritional value.

I get my grass-fed beef from U.S. Wellness Meats, a group of family-owned organic farms that sell high-quality meat from animals raised in their natural environment.
Another good source is the Ted Slanker Ranch
For an alphabetical listing of pasture farms near you, visit Eat Wild and click on “shop for local” on the left hand side.
Step 2: Take the nutrients that fight nitrosamines: vitamins C and E. Scientists found vitamin C’s protective power by accident. Researchers were studying nitrosamine formation caused by a drug they were testing. When they went to use a new batch, no nitrosamines were formed. They found that the new batch had been made with ascorbic acid (vitamin C) as a preservative, but the original batch had not. Vitamin E has a similar effect.1


Studies show vitamin C works by disarming free radicals before they can damage your DNA and stimulate tumor growth.


When you add vitamin E, you increased the protection of vitamin C. As it turns out vitamin E is a "synergistic" nutrient. It needs other antioxidants to work best. It’s prevention at its finest.


Besides fruit, other food sources of vitamin C are bright-colored peppers, and peppermint leaves. The spices thyme and parsley have a lot of vitamin C, too. You can add them to any soup, stew or salad.


The most important food sources for vitamin E are seeds, nuts and eggs. Dry roasted sunflower seeds and almonds are the natural sources with the most vitamin E.


I recommend 1,500 mg of vitamin C twice a day if you’re currently healthy, and 400 IU of vitamin E every day.

To Your Good Health,



Al Sears, MD"