Kentucky's ongoing attempt to end racing in state proceeds..

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

So what? What difference does it make really? Virtually every horse gets a shot of bute 24 hours out as well and has for 40 years.

So what? It should be painfully obvious by now. It is all about perception. Drugging every horse before they race is never going to be perceived very well, and I personally don't think it should be. Every horse shouldn't get Bute either. They don't all need it.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

So what? It should be painfully obvious by now. It is all about perception. Drugging every horse before they race is never going to be perceived very well, and I personally don't think it should be. Every horse shouldn't get Bute either. They don't all need it.

Perception? Who brought this entire debate into the publics eye because it sure hasn't been much of a topic for a long time? This is a issue that was created by those within the game who have their own agenda which is largely misguided. If giving a horse a shot of lasix is "drugging" them then pretty much all of us (with the notable exception of Indian Charlie) are drugging ourselves every day as well.

The perception of this sport has very little to do with lasix.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Perception? Who brought this entire debate into the publics eye because it sure hasn't been much of a topic for a long time? This is a issue that was created by those within the game who have their own agenda which is largely misguided. If giving a horse a shot of lasix is "drugging" them then pretty much all of us (with the notable exception of Indian Charlie) are drugging ourselves every day as well.

The perception of this sport has very little to do with lasix.

We are? All of us are getting injections? I have a herniated disc, so I have had a few this year, but not so I could compete. I would say a very small percentage are getting injections, and of that, how many are doing it to compete in sports?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

We are? All of us are getting injections? I have a herniated disc, so I have had a few this year, but not so I could compete. I would say a very small percentage are getting injections, and of that, how many are doing it to compete in sports?

So all those diabetics that give themselves shots are druggies because they use a needle to treat their disease? Lasix comes in many forms including pills, would it make you feel better if we gave them pills? What difference does it make what delivery system you are using? We give electrolytes and fluids to horses using catheters and no one is against them.

Refusing to acknowledge that lasix is a preventative measure clouds your entire argument.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

So all those diabetics that give themselves shots are druggies because they use a needle to treat their disease? Lasix comes in many forms including pills, would it make you feel better if we gave them pills? What difference does it make what delivery system you are using? We give electrolytes and fluids to horses using catheters and no one is against them.

Refusing to acknowledge that lasix is a preventative measure clouds your entire argument.

There is a whole list of approved therapeutic medications that can be used in horse competitions internationally, (and humans, too) at the Olympic level, etc. All while there is zero tolerance for illegal drugs, and/or excessive levels of therapeutic drugs, with far more aggressive and restrictive - and further advanced - testing and detection procedures than the American horse racing industry.

The American racing industry should stop being a club of old rich but rather ignorant men, harrumping and grunting about lasix and steroids and thinking they are making a difference, and start stepping up into the 21st century like the rest of the world.

It would be good to reflect upon why the racing industry isn't embracing what's common in other elite performance horse sports in the rest of the world, and continues to cry about ... lasix? Seriously? All the problems in racing, and they are setting fire to the straw man of lasix?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

So all those diabetics that give themselves shots are druggies because they use a needle to treat their disease? Lasix comes in many forms including pills, would it make you feel better if we gave them pills? What difference does it make what delivery system you are using? We give electrolytes and fluids to horses using catheters and no one is against them.

Refusing to acknowledge that lasix is a preventative measure clouds your entire argument.

How are diabetics and horses that are given drugs to compete for millions and millions of dollars remotely comparable. That is just being ridiculous. Stick to sports, because after all, isn't that what horse racing is?

Again, in what other sport, anywhere, is nearly every competitor given drugs on the day of the race?

[Honu]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

How are diabetics and horses that are given drugs to compete for millions and millions of dollars remotely comparable. That is just being ridiculous. Stick to sports, because after all, isn't that what horse racing is?

Again, in what other sport, anywhere, is nearly every competitor given drugs on the day of the race?

Maybe not the day of the race but for sure day of the game. If you dont think humans are cortizoned and or blocked to play pro sports you havent been paying attention. Last year Ben Rothelisberger was blocked to play a playoff game and when it was delayed the sportscasters were even commenting about his pre-game injection wearing off too soon.
I will tell you we are experimenting with working some horses in our barn without lasix and scoping after to see if they are bleeding. I think that the reason is because my boss can see the writing on the wall, people who are not really involved on a daily basis with these athletes are going to try and dictate what can and cannot be done in regards to the well being of racers.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Honu

Maybe not the day of the race but for sure day of the game. If you dont think humans are cortizoned and or blocked to play pro sports you havent been paying attention. Last year Ben Rothelisberger was blocked to play a playoff game and when it was delayed the sportscasters were even commenting about his pre-game injection wearing off too soon.
I will tell you we are experimenting with working some horses in our barn without lasix and scoping after to see if they are bleeding. I think that the reason is because my boss can see the writing on the wall, people who are not really involved on a daily basis with these athletes are going to try and dictate what can and cannot be done in regards to the well being of racers.

For about the hundredth time, nobody says there are no drugs in sports. However, there are no sports where virtually ALL participant gets drugs on the day of the event.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

How are diabetics and horses that are given drugs to compete for millions and millions of dollars remotely comparable. That is just being ridiculous. Stick to sports, because after all, isn't that what horse racing is?

Again, in what other sport, anywhere, is nearly every competitor given drugs on the day of the race?

You complained about needles, just pointing out millions of people arent so concerned about the use of a needle. Again what other sport reports anything that a participant is given?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You complained about needles, just pointing out millions of people arent so concerned about the use of a needle. Again what other sport reports anything that a participant is given?

What other sport directly makes money from gambling?

[pointman]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

How are diabetics and horses that are given drugs to compete for millions and millions of dollars remotely comparable. That is just being ridiculous. Stick to sports, because after all, isn't that what horse racing is?

Again, in what other sport, anywhere, is nearly every competitor given drugs on the day of the race?

What other sport are the competitor's allowed to train on drugs that are banned on game day?

What other sport are players not allowed to use an injection to prevent their lungs from filling up with blood or any liquid substance?

Are IV's performance enhancers? Should althletes be banned from taking an IV during a game if they get dehydrated?

[Cannon Shell]

The evidence that the general public gives a damn about anything we do in this sport is flimsy. For those which are ardent followers of the sport I can think of many better ways to address the perception issue than elimnating raceday lasix (in other words for the majority of people, taking the L in the program away). This sport has a lot of huge issues staring it in the face and lasix usage or lack there of is hardly going to solve any of them.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

So what? It should be painfully obvious by now. It is all about perception. Drugging every horse before they race is never going to be perceived very well, and I personally don't think it should be. Every horse shouldn't get Bute either. They don't all need it.

The solution to bad "perception" is not to choose to undermine the health care of the horse in favor of supporting and giving in to public ignorance about drugs.

The solution is educating the ignorance away.

That's proven to be really difficult in some.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

The solution to bad "perception" is not to choose to undermine the health care of the horse in favor of supporting and giving in to public ignorance about drugs.

The solution is educating the ignorance away.

That's proven to be really difficult in some.

I don't think most people really care that much about the health of horses. Out of sight, out of mind.

Oh they claim they do because who would admit the not caring but this entire debate is not about the health of horses. Most people just havent come to that realization yet.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I don't think most people really care that much about the health of horses. Out of sight, out of mind.

Oh they claim they do because who would admit the not caring but this entire debate is not about the health of horses. Most people just havent come to that realization yet.

Faithful pawns are useful for maintaining power. Burn a straw man, it's as good as solving a real problem to those pawns that like fire, rather than substance.