Kentucky's ongoing attempt to end racing in state proceeds..

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

Horses are injected with a drug to help prevent physical problems that can be caused by what we ask them to do.

Really? No sh!t. That was my whole point. If every horse needs an injection of drugs to race, we probably shouldn't be racing horses. Now, personally I don't think they all need it, but you know that already. I'm just not sure the US is ready to hear we run a sport where every horse needs drugs to run. How is that going to fly?

Originally Posted by Riot

The only way to eliminate EIPH is to eliminate any horse sport that involves speed and maximal effort. It's hardly limited to racing them. It's called Exercise-Induced Pulmonary Hemorrhage.

I never said it could be eliminated, I'm just saying drugs are overused, but you also know that. Amazingly, the rest of the world seems to do just fine without it, and also kick our ass much of the time. When is the last time a horse from the US shipped overseas and won a race of consequence?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Really? No sh!t. That was my whole point. If every horse needs an injection of drugs to race, we probably shouldn't be racing horses. Now, personally I don't think they all need it, but you know that already. I'm just not sure the US is ready to hear we run a sport where every horse needs drugs to run. How is that going to fly?

Nobody is advocating that all horses get it. Nobody is saying all horses need it.

But the truth is that 93% of horses that race in North America have evidence of bleeding in their lungs, lasix helps prevent that, and why is the racing industry trying to take that therapeutic help away?

Should we stop working on current research to find other drugs that help prevent or provide relief for EIPH?

Those same horses bleed on race day in other countries that don't use lasix - and suffer worse affects from the episodes because the severity isn't attenuated.

Again: you want to eliminate lasix, eliminate all horse sports at speed. Let's go down the slippery slope of that argument. And prevent some human athletic competitions. And hunting dogs. And if we want to prevent broken legs, or any athletic injuries, to animals, let's just refuse to do anything with horses - or other animals - but watch them be lawn ornaments in pastures. Let's prevent the Amish from using them as carriage horses. Let's let PETA take over the world.

Now, the above is silly. Most of us here love horses, and love horse racing. So let's continue to put the horse first, and make racing them safer and healthier for the horse - not move away from that

[cmorioles]

You are being ridiculous. Which races allow the humans to take Lasix?

Maybe 93% show "some" bleeding, but of that percentage, how many can race without side effects and really need it to be successful? I'm guessing it is a MUCH smaller number. After all, we had racing for a century before it was deemed necessary for so many horses.

Plain and simple, it was abused because many felt it was a performance enhancer and that those that actually did need it were getting an advantage. So, they started searching for easier and easier ways to get Lasix for the horse. That is what got us where we are today.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

You are being ridiculous. Which races allow the humans to take Lasix?

I'm saying that Exercise-Induced Pulmonary Hemorrhage is not a problem only of horses.

Maybe 93% show "some" bleeding, but of that percentage, how many can race without side effects and really need it to be successful? I'm guessing it is a MUCH smaller number.

How do you define "successful"? Earning money?

Because I'm sure the horse would much prefer to have air in his alveolar sacs during running, instead of blood and hemosiderophages. It makes oxygenation easier.

After all, we had racing for a century before it was deemed necessary for so many horses.

A century ago, we didn't have the modern medical capability we have now. Medical advancement in health care of the horse is a good thing. We didn't have penicillin during World War one. Does that mean we shouldn't have used it in Viet Nam?

And we've raced horses for much longer than a century.

Plain and simple, it was abused because many felt it was a performance enhancer and that those that actually did need it were getting an advantage. So, they started searching for easier and easier ways to get Lasix for the horse. That is what got us where we are today.

But today we have modern medicine, and research, and we are far more educated on the extent and complications of EIPH in race horses. We are completely familiar with the pharmacology of lasix. We haven't had a problem with lasix diluting drug samples for over 20 years.

So now, with our increased education and knowledge, the veterinary world is advising the horse racing world to allow one drug - lasix - to continue to be used as a therapeutic medication on race day, for the health and welfare of the horse.

But those that control racing are making a stupid, ignorant choice to do the opposite, based upon outdated and no longer valid "reasons and knowledge" from literally decades ago.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

I'm saying that Exercise-Induced Pulmonary Hemorrhage is not a problem only of horses.

And yet, life goes on without Lasix outside of horse racing in athletic competition.

I'm starting the think the stupid, ignorant choice that was made was allowing Lasix in the first place.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

And yet, life goes on without Lasix outside of horse racing in athletic competition.

And those horses suffer worse from EIPH than race horses.

I'm starting the think the stupid, ignorant choice that was made was allowing Lasix in the first place.

Who cares what was done 50 years ago? When I was a child, I was taught to drench colic horses with a mixture of turpentine and linseed oil! Now we knows that probably killed alot of horses - yet veterinarians did it!

Medicine advances. Sports medicine advances, in humans and animals. I attended a veterinary conference yesterday on diagnosis and treatment of back and hind end injuries in performance horses, and half the diagnostic techniques, and most of the treatments, were not even available, let alone taught to me, when I graduated veterinary college.

We need to use what we know today. Not pretend we are in the 1800's. Or even the 1990's. It's 2012.

And by the way: several of the recommended treatments are viewed as "race horse trainer cheating" by some lay people because for many years, race horse trainers have abused and misused some things associated with those therapies. Does that make them less valid when used appropriately as a medical treatment? Of course not.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Gary Stevens is going to testify before Congress. Stevens takes a zero-tolerance stance on race-day medication. Stevens must be a terrible guy to take such a stance. He must have some really selfish and negative intentions. It's either that, or he must just be really ignorant on the subject. LOL. Let the attacks on Stevens begin.

http://www.drf.com/news/hovdey-steve...day-medication

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Riot

Who cares what was done 50 years ago? When I was a child, I was taught to drench colic horses with a mixture of turpentine and linseed oil! Now we knows that probably killed alot of horses - yet veterinarians did it!

This is the closest you've ever come to making any sort of sense.

I assure you, in 50 years, they are going to be saying the same kind of thing as what you said about colic.

[cmorioles]

1994, BC Classic, 14 horses run, 6 with Lasix. Lasix horses take the first 6 spots.
1995, 10 of 11 with Lasix
1996, 11 of 13
1997, 9 of 9
1998, 9 of 10
1999, 14 of 14
2000, 13 of 13
2001, 13 of 13
2002, 12 of 12
2003, 10 of 10
2004, 12 of 13, foreign shipper lone exception
2005, 13 of 13
2006, 12 of 13, foreign shipper lone exception
2007, 9 of 9
2008, 11 of 12, foreign shipper lone exception
2009, 11 of 12, foreign shipper lone exception
2010, 11 of 12, foreign shipper lone exception
2011, 12 of 12

Since 1999, EVERY American horse in our best race has been injected with a drug to race. Not 93%, but 100%. We are talking around 130 horse and EVERY one was given Lasix. Sure, it isn't abused.

[Riot]

Since 1999, EVERY American horse in our best race has been injected with a drug to race. Not 93%, but 100%. We are talking around 130 horse and EVERY one was given Lasix. Sure, it isn't abused.

Your assumption is mere use = abuse.

My viewpoint - based upon the science - is that use = therapy good for the horse.

Who cares what was done 10 years ago? 100 years ago? What matters is what we know now, today, about the horse's health.

And those that know race horse health best, the veterinary world, based upon today's medical knowledge and research, are advising the racing world to allow one drug - lasix - to be used on race day as a therapeutic medication for the health and welfare of the race horse.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

Your assumption is mere use = abuse.

My viewpoint - based upon the science - is that use = therapy good for the horse.

Who cares what was done 10 years ago? 100 years ago? What matters is what we know now, today, about the horse's health.

And those that know race horse health best, the veterinary world, based upon today's medical knowledge and research, are advising the racing world to allow one drug - lasix - to be used on race day as a therapeutic medication for the health and welfare of the race horse.

Simple, 93% of horses allegedly need it, yet 100% get it. Sure, that makes sense.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Simple, 93% of horses allegedly need it, yet 100% get it. Sure, that makes sense.

Do you know what is required on the race track to get permission from the stewards to give a horse lasix on race day?